WTF is that with the newly educated teachers hating commas trend?

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My brother has just come back from his English class at British Council and shown me his essay corrected by the teacher. The very comma that I told him to put after an introductory however is crossed out. Come on, that's not just a new comma omission trend. That's just downright wrong. If you remove the comma from after however, it becomes a conjuctional however ("however powerful you become, there is still someone more powerful than you"), which is a totally different thing in meaning. And if British Council teachers teach that kind of crap, then what about the smaller, less renowned schools? At this point I wonder if I'm going to have to each my kids English myself when the time comes.

Any of my teachers would have killed me for not putting the comma there. But this guy, who collected spat out chewing gums from Manchester United's grass before becoming a teacher of English, says no comma. Not like he's an isolated case: I've seen a lot of the same in both English and my own Polish. For example, students of polonistics here are utterly helpless when facing punctuation, to the point that they actually give up without trying.

Now question arises whether it's some new trends in syntax or if it's just teh general crappiness of the education people receive nowadays. Before WW2, even science and technical people could write better than I do these days, but now... even graduates in their own native language can't write. What the ****?

[ October 14, 2006, 14:28: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

I must confess I'm not sure when to put a comma or a hyphen (is that how you spell or say it? Uh... this thing --> - the minus sign I guess). It's also not exactly taught, at least I don't remember sitting down and being told where to put it and why. I've actually learned from Microsoft Word of all things...

 

Ah, the dilemma of misplaced commas. I'm sure teachers all over the world are infuriated.,

 

Hmm, is, there, any, good, source, where, I, can, read, about, where, commas, should, be, placed?,

I think this just all boils down to crappy education, the same thing happens in the Netherlands were new teachers get chosen for their people-skills, and not because they know stuff.

 

Morgoth: On my school, things turned out to be exactly the other way around. They knew a lot, but because they were such erm... nasty people, I never cared to listen to them that well.

 

I must confess that I've never received any punctuation class in any of my english classes. I've also only a basic grasp of french punctation. I blame the crappy teacher who don't care anymore.

 

Those who can, do.

Those who can't, teach.

 

I'm beginning to think it's like with modern psychology. The aim is not to teach but to make kids feel like they know something. What's the point of helping people improve if we can help them feel confident instead?

 

Never had a situation like that occur to me yet, which is likely a good thing as I use commas rather extensively. OTOH, I have been blessed through my English-studying with an English teacher who was not only a pretty cool guy, but knew what he was talking about.

 

I wish I knew what I was talking about.

 

Can you give us the exact sentence so we can be properly outraged? I'm not sure what to say without it.

P.S. NOT being sarcastic.

 

In Poland [a comma should be here but the teacher didn't put a red one in] we now have more leisure centres, gyms and more people want to exercise. They usually do some sport, as well.

However, there is a problem with youngsters. They drink a lot of alcohol and smoke cigarettes. In my opinion [again no comma and no correction by the teacher] they do not know the consequences of their actions.

Two missing commas ignored and one absolutely necessary comma crossed out.

 

Urgh, I see what you mean. That is pretty poor for someone who is expected to teach others English.

 

Ugh. That reads like the gyms want to exercise. A possible better version would be "In Poland, we now have more leisure centres and gyms, and more people want to exercise." With the comma after Poland being up to judgement, but advised.

They marked that one out?! They really don't have a concept of the language in that case.

That one's again a judgement call (not strictly necessary), but advised.

 

English is not my native language; but, even I can see that. These three commas must be in their places.

 

Hmm, I'd have said that one was necessary as 'In my opinion' is an aside rather than the main part of the sentence.

 

Yes, it does look like that and we have the Oxford comma dilemma. Some purists actually believe one shouldn't use a comma before "and" in such situations, but I'm not one of those. I'll let him make his own choice in the matter.

 

If you dont put a comma after, "In my opinion", you destroy the flow of the sentence completely. try and speak the words aloud, you will see you will pause after opinion to give weight to your words. Same with the other examples.

The guy doesnt know anything but hes a new teacher with a new degree. Being a university graduate I can tell you it is entirely possible to get an easy degree and not learn enough, and I would guess it is possible to study English but still not have a good grasp of how the language should be written.

He's probably looking for some mistakes because he's worried about doing his job properly, but doesnt see others because his mind switches between skimming and examining.

 

That's sad but true!

The way I was taught, was that along with adding a pause to the sentence, is that the comma lets you intelligently add information to the sentence that can be removed, while the overall sentence still make sense.

Take that last sentence for example. If you take out all the words between the two commas, the sentence still makes sense:

See? Commas are our friends! Any teacher that shuns the comma, needs to be handed the Grammatical Moron of the Month plaque!

[ October 16, 2006, 20:46: Message edited by: Kitrax ]

 

Apart from using the word "They", you're adding an extra 'Y' that shouldn't be there