4th edition - rumours and discussion and so on

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I'll approach 4th ed with caution.

If what I hear from friends online is positive, I'll give it a chance. Not through buying books, mind you, cause I'm done forking money to WoTC unless they can prove to keep providing quality books instead of milking the moneymaker. (like they did with a large portion of the complete and the entire races line) I'll borrow or download a copy, try it out in a game and then judge it.

That said, I like the inclusion of tieflings, but the addition or dragonborn not so much. I like the idea of making a champion for each diety, but it shouldn't be titled 'Paladin' since that's associated too much with the LawfulGood mindset. And Paladin of Evil just sounds dumb.

 

To me later publications of 3rd edition allready became complete heresy. From what I've heard 4th edition makes it only worse. Perhaps I'm just being conservative, but I'll just stick with 2nd edition thank you very much.

 

according to the wizard of the coast roundup tal posted on may 4, multi-classing is 2 classes only no more. Also dwarven dodge against giants is now a feat you have to buy not a racial characteristic

 

I see the motive for that. The idea is that characters should have a clear focus, but if someone wants 8 different classes, I see no reason why a DM shouldn't give them what they want--a lot of little skills but no real power!

 

yes but this also completely kills most prestige classes. no arcane archer, arcane trickster, mystic theurge, ... any that require abilities from more than 1 class

 

I'd be willing to bet there are plans for "prestige feats" that will mimic 3E prestige classes.

Of course, that will come later on down the road...it a seperate source book.

On the one hand, I understand them trying to keep pepople form making crazy multiclassing choices, but on the other hand...it sounds like multiclassing is going to be kind of confusing.

 

the stats they are putting up for creatures are wacked!
a Lvl25 Swordwing with Con26 has 234hp = 9.36/level
a Lvl26 Crownwing with Con22 has 238hp = 9.15/level

with a Lvl25 encounter = 4 Swordwings & 1 Crownwings = 1174hp

4 characters, 1 each fighter, thief, cleric & mage(if they mantain standard hd) = 700(max rolls) + 400(4/level/character for Con) = 1100hp

whereas

a Lvl19 Angel of Vengeance with Con23 has 446hp = 23.47/level
Lvl8 Angel of Valor with Con16 has 88 = 11/level

with a Lvl19 encounter = 2 A of Vengeance & 3 A of Valor = 1156hp

4 characters, 1 each fighter, thief, cleric & mage(if they mantain standard hd) = 532(max rolls) + 304(4/level/character for Con) = 836hp
and the angels have a bunch of more useful abilities than the wings

it just doesnt seem well thought out

 

That's because the whole philosophy behind HPs (and healing too, but that's a whole other discussion) changed for 4th edition - specially regarding monsters.

They are moving away from 3e's philosophy of shoehorning monsters into the same rules that apply for PCs because monsters are, well, monsters, and not PCs. They are meant to antagonize the PCs and make them abide to the same "building" logic seems like a waste of time that could be better used with creative thinking.

As of PCs, now they start with (a lot) more HPs at level 1, but progression from then on became static, and lower too (something like 5 HPs for a Fighter every level, regardless of CON, which will now only influence your initial number and saving throws).

 

And that's a bad thing? If you make pizza for a living, you'll be able to earn a paycheck for the rest of your life, assuming people will continue eating pizzas. When you publish gaming books for a living, you have to keep writing new stuff to keep earning that paycheck and feeding your poor, starving children who look up at you with sad eyes and say "daddy... me hungwee" Now go out and buy those 4th Edition books darnit!

 

Trouble is: they don`t even write new stuff. They paste the same stuff into different books. I think I have seen the Black Flame Zealot prestigue class in 4 different books allready, for example. 90 percent of the stuff I have seen of 4th ed, though, is insanely lame. And dumbed down to the extreme. Looks like Diablo, in pen and paper form. So No, I won`t be buying anything from 4th ed. Will stick with playing modifeid 2ed. And Conan (very good rpg by the way, made by mongoose).

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'll give fourth edition the benefit of the doubt. If I like it better, I'll schill for it shamelessly. If I don't, I'll stick with 3.5.

 

They are supposedly moving away from that by avoiding repeating content and also releasing new rules in a more organized way. Only time will tell if that's true, anyway.

We're only a World of Warcraft comparison away to bringing this thread in line with all the "I hate 4e" threads at the WotC board.

 

The 4E mechanics I'm ambivalent towards. I like some of it, am annoyed by other parts, but I will wait.

The 4E FR fluff changes don't sound good though.

Spoiler

The bastards killed Mystra!

 

Shaman... your spoiler... tell me you are kidding

 

That settles it.

4th edition officially doesn't exist for me.

(I know less than little about DnD rules, I admit it, but this is too much.)

Spoiler

Mystra rules!

 

Every time they redo the rules, they make some major changes within the worlds so players will have to buy those books too. Well, the ones that care about said worlds. When they put out third Edition, they sold the licence to the world I liked best and discontinued my second choice. Rumour has it that they won't do much with Ravenloft in 4th either, so I'll be looking in on another message board hoping they have ideas...

 

The also removed the Barbarian, bard, druid, monk, and sorcerer class. As well as the gnome as a race. No more Jan Jansen. I would think that if they wanted to improve stuff, they would add more classes, not remove them.