4th edition - rumours and discussion and so on

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You missed the "Elite" in the underbosses headline. There are three monster categories now: minions, standard issues, and elite opponents.

 

actually there are 4 solo is a catagory also 1st L standard/minion/elite/solo xp is 100/25/200/500.
However looking at the templates to add to monsters & for classes they don't give any more hp for elite than for standard so how do the elite get more hp's? It's just really confusing. Just check out the L8 Hobgoblin Hand of Bane(Elite Soldier) 184 hp!
Now realize a standard encounter for a 5th level party is him, 3 L3 Hobgoblin Soldier(47 hp) & 2 L3 Hobgoblin Archer(39 hp) against
Fighter L5 C19 hp 58
Paladin L5 C19 hp58
Cleric L5 C17 hp 49
Ranger L5 C 17 hp 49
Wizard L5 C15 hp41
Thief L5 C15 hp47
so thats 403 hp vs 302(+ a possible 75 in healing surges)
it looks like anything over about 5th or 6th is gonna be hit'em hard, hit'em fast & run like the wind!

 

I've been thinking about the Criticism of the Wizzard. Look at the example of the Fireball. It's good for clearing Minions, but not much else. He's a controller, that's his primary function to clear out the cannon fodder. The Strikers will deal with the leader types. Further, Fireball is a Level 5 ability. AS he gets higher levels, he's using higher level abilities for bigger effects and more damage.

Also, What is the real difference between rolling an attack against the reflex defence of each creature in the target area and rolling a save for each creature in the area of effecxt? Simple, it has the Player roll more dice and the DM roll fewer dice. This will help the flow of the game when the players get a feel for the new system.

Now that I've had a chance to look over the PHB, I don't think it's as apocalyptic as some here may think it is. Sure it's a cash grab, and I expect to be ponying up this fall, and the game is geared to the next generation coming up, who've been playing Final Fantasy and World of Warcraft, and any other game where the basic attack is superceded by flashier effects, but that's part of the appeal. Tell me you've never wanted to do the Darth Vader choke on some NPC?

It's a game, and it's supposed to be fun. I for one, think it could be, and fully expect to get some testing in to get a feel for it to see if it delivers...

Edit: Martaug, Your numbers are right, but the idea of an adventuring party, and specifically the classification into rolls, is to re-enforce the concept that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. In your example, the Fighter and Paladin (Defenders) are in the front, keeping the Soldiers at bay, likely finishig them fairly quickly and moving onto the big guy. The Wizzard (Controller) will be dropping some Area of effect bomb that will wear the cannon fodder down and even get some shots into the big guy in the process. The Ranger and Rogue (Strikers) will be able to take the leader down with their higher damage shots, while the Cleric (Leader) uses his abilities to give the rest of the team an edge.

 

I actually agree with you gnarf, i think it could be a fun(maybe) game but it just doesn't seem to be d&D any more. A wizards favorite 1st level spell has always been magic missile. now it only does 2d4+Int mod dam & no multiple missles. However look at burning hands, it now is a close burst 5 for 2d6+Int mod damage. This is 5squares x 5 squares! thats a potential to damage up to 25 enemies!
Man, burning hands used to be last chosen spell & now it's a must have.

 

You think that's big, look at the Warlock with the Infernal pact! The Darth Vader choke or the Sith Lightning (at least that's how I visualize those abilities) as first level encounter abilities! I'm still trying to decide between temporary Hit points or the ability to move someone where they don't intend to be...

I actually made a character this evening. It took roughly half an hour, and as I get more familiar with the game and the races and classes, I can cut that down even further!

 

The Vader choke, and the lightning thingy are skills in the SW rpg, by the way. At least they were in the previous edition.

 

I can. 3rd level spell 'Clutch of Orcus', found in the Spell Compendium. Ongoing 1d12 damage (up to 1rd./cl) for as long as the caster concentrates and the victim fails fort saves.

It's supposed to be squeezing the victim's heart, but that's easily rewritten.

 

I made three more characters today. I may get around to a dry run of a combat based on some of the ideas they offer up in the DMG for building encounters.

 

I'm 99% sure this was taken from WoW, based what I remember from a friend who use to play the game. Not influenced mind you, but straight up ripped from the game.

 

What the devils is the deal with the new alignment system? Alignments in general are silly, but the old system was much better. Yeah, unaligned is nice, but what's the deal with LG - Good -N - Evil - CE?

Stupid stupid stupid. LE was a spiffy alignment.

Had a glance at this. http://mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2008/05/29/4e-phb-readthrough-chapters-1-3/
Seriously, what's with all the CHA bonuses? I don't mind the tiefling one so much, but...halflings? What?

Also, dwarves are hammer-y now. Hm. I suppose it makes more sense - smiths use hammers, and not axes...

Okay, no multiclassing? What? That just goes and kills all most of the interesting character concepts I've ever had. Tristan the Bard/Barbarian will never surface again in D&D.

 

If you stick with 3.5 edition he will.

 

Multiclassing isn't gone! It was just completely reworked (it's done using Feats - and that sounds bizarre, but it'll make sense when you read it up). No more cherrypicking levels of various classes (which is a great change, if you ask me).

Though your Bard/Barbarian will probably have to wait until PHB II is released next year (expect to see Druid, Barbarian, Bard, Sorcerer and probably rules for Psionic characters on this one).

 

Hum. I agree with not cherrypicking classes, but this reliance on feats would mean many, many more moneygrinding rulebooks. Oh well, it's not like I really play D&D anyway.

 

I did some combat testing. The Warlord needs to be on the front line to do his job, but he's a little fragile for the position, but the Paladin is a monster! The Warlock is deadly.

I also learned that kobolds are a tougher fight and that Fire Beetles are very nasty. For a party to survive, they have to be smart, willing to work as a team and a little bit lucky!

 

Don't suppose anyone'd be interested in running an online game of it (perhaps using OpenRPG or some other virtual tabletop for the minis)?

 

I doubt 4th ed is playable without minis actually. Seems very focused around squares and such.

 

My cousin has enquired about a PBEm game, but I suggested that Combat would drag too long that way as there is a lot of manouvering in 4th. If I could afford the subscription to DnD Insider and when we finally get High Speed, I'd like to try it online, but until then I'll stick to trying to get a Table Top group together...

 

Link to the tool I mentioned - AFAIK it has all the necessary features to run a game online, including minis:
http://www.openrpg.com/

 

I'm probably going to try the new 4th edition D&D. Probably won't even check the reviews since they are written by fervent D&D-players who will most likely idolise their 3.5v. If it's more accessible like they themselves argue, I might pick it up.

 

Did some testing with the combat system. Dragons can be nasty, and would be even nastier if I can get a feel for using them properly!

Aik: Thanks for the link. Working on the downloads now. I hope to get them tonight...