4th edition - rumours and discussion and so on

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they are turning Thay in the main base for "the horde", I would wager. And Alliance will get their base in Baldur`s Gate. Its all turning world of warcraft, belive me. A bunch of the gods have been killed off too. Mystra is one of them. Purely because they have changed the spell-system in the rules. A new continent has sprung up in the ocean. With no effect to the costal town, mind you. I would think stuff like that might cause massive tidalwaves or something.

Netheril is rebuildt as well. And of course Drizzt has survived the whole thing.


ets face it: They have finally ruined the forgotten realms. And d&d too.

 

I swear, WHY is everything being turned WoWish??? Diablo 3 already looks a little like it I'll wager that a LOT of the upcoming games will be the same. They can't do that to d&d... They just can't

I thought the whole reason the weave existed was because of Mystra? So how exactly does magic work if shes dead

 

Spells don`t improve as you level up anymore. Monsters have stat-cards in the monster manual. After each fight, all your spells return, no need for any resting. You can do something called a "healing surge". Meaning you just heal, by performing an action. If I remember correctly. Character movement is now measured by squares, instead of feet, wich means you need to buy miniatures from WOTC as well, in order to play the game properly. Skillpoints are removed as well. Skills just improve as you level up. Aparantly it was too complicated, if they didn`t do it that way. Ohh and you have talent-trees, like in diablo, and of course feats. The whole thing looks very very much like world of warcraft. I would think they are trying to make the kids who play world of warcraft, their main target with this edition, not oldtimers like you and me.

Another dreadfull thought is that the d&d computer games, from now on, will be 4th ed as well. And if someone ever makes Baldur`s Gate 3... Well, you just think about that.

Druid, Monk, Bard, and some other classes, has been removed as well. Gnome and half-orc are not present anymore either, allthough they did brag bigtime about having implemented the tiefling as a race. I seem to remember that the tiefling was a playable race in 3.5 ed as well though...

 

Actually, there is need for resting, as some spells and abilities are only 1/day, and healing surges, action points and iirc some other stuff is only replenished when you rest.

Basically there are 3 kinds of abilities as far as rarity is concerned: there are at-will powers, encounter powers, and daily powers - and some items have such powers as well. All classes have the exact same number of powers per level - if a lvl 5 cleric has 2 daily powers, 2 encounter ones and 3 at will ones, a 5th level paladin or rogue will have neither more nor less.

Frankly, there are some good ideas but I prefer 3.5. I think I'll use the pathfinder beta book though - it helps a bit in terms of races and classes, and I think I prefer its version of many spells.

 

Silveryshield, Well some of the spells do increase damage but normally only at 11th & 21st level. Some spells you can use at-will(all you want, others once per encounter & then are the once a day spells,
At 2nd level you have 2 at will powers, 1 encounter power, 1 daily power & 1 utility power(also a once per day power).
Monsters have way more HP's than a corresponding level character so the healing surges help offset that(monsters don't have them)

Luskan - "The cesspoll of the world, Luskan is a city stewing in it's own rot. Once it was a thriving port anchoring the northern end of the Trade Way, but decades of social unrest & rampant crime have left it largely abandoned. Now luskan is the exclusive territory of rival street gangs, monsters & vermin."

It only says that neverwinter did not fare well in the spellplague & now lies in ruins. Maybe it will give more details in the next book?

The Powers that each class use are tied to a particular Power source.
The main ones are:
Divine(still comes from gods) but are called prayers now not spells
Arcane(drawing on the magical energy that permeates the cosmos) spells are still spells
Martial(strength, willpower, training & dedication replace arcane formulas & prayers) They are called exploits

Warlocks are kinda arcane but different, they make a pact with either:
the Fey(ancient, amoral powers of the feywild),
the Infernal(long ago a forgotten(& destroyed by asmodeus) race of devils created a path to power) or
the Star path(you have mastered the astrologer's arts, learning the names of the stars & able to gaze into the Far Realms Beyond)

As for the bloodwar, the destruction of DweomerHeart(not sure what this is) sent a Dying Azuth into Asmodeus's fiery domain. The archdevil killed him & consumed his divine essence. He then ended the Bloodwar by pushing the Abyss to the bottom of the Elemental chaos.
Asmodeus is now a greater god.

Rawgrim, they actual explain the new continent thusly :
Long ago the world was twinned to save it from a final conflict between the gods & the primordials.
The gods took one(Toril) & the primordials the other(Abeir). Ages later, the spellplague caused the two seperate worlds to overlap. Portions of each world shifted into the other. Then the worlds separated again, contact severed, but each having contributed to the other. Perhaps as much as one quarter of Toril hosts land native to Abeir.
The 2 most significant transplanted lands on the continent of faerun are Akunal & Tymanther.
However the largest new landmass is the continent that faerunians called Returned Abeir, which lies east of the Trackless Sea.
In Returned Abeir, Dragons rule vast realms of slaves. The dragonborn are the most numerous. Organised religion is something new; even the concept of gods who answer prayers is still alien to many.

So what they did was replace 1/4 of the world with a slightly waterd down version of Dark-Sun(no gods, Dragon overlords)

Now think about this, what happened to the faerunians that got transported to Abeir? Hmmm, second book hook maybe?

 

I still say they ruined it, beyond repair, just like they did with the new star wars rules.

 

Oh i agree they have changed it so much that it isn't D&D anymore, however, like gnarff has stated, it may be fun to try as a new game.

 

It might be fun as a board-game, I admit. But it doesn`t feel like an rpg anymore, thats for sure.

 

But the RP side has never come from the books, but from the DM and the players. If anything, what I've seen of the books and D&D insider content acknowledges that the "fluff" will be picked over as desired by the players. There are some mostly fluff pieces, like the FR Campaign guide, but most books look more at the rules.

And as for what happened to the FR, wouldn't people ***** louder if they wrote the same book and added a few things to fit with the new rules and tried to sell it for $40? Further, if you don't like a particular change, redo it the way you want for your own campaign. Once you have the book and 4 to 6 players around the table, it's YOUR campaign, not theirs. If you don't like Thay being all Undead, return it to the Magocracy of old. Think the Spell plague is stupid? Get rid of it. The books are written so that a) you have a jumping off point for your campaign, and b) you have an idea of the geography and history of the Realms for the future FR books you might buy (like the Player's guide).

What I'm eagerly awaiting is the treatmetn that Ravenloft gets. It's supposed to have a domain in the next Dragon magazine...

 

After a battle ends, the spells return?? Wow that doesn't sound like mana AT ALL

I'll admit I liked the idea of Tieflings being a playable (sub) race in the 3.5 edition rules, but why get rid of gnomes and half-orcs? Sigh.

Now I heard they got rid of bards (WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?? ), but I don't understand why would they remove druids and monks? It makes no sense. I never really liked druids (ewww nature) but they were a nice part of d&d, it won't be the same without them.

I guess what happened to Luskan isn't exactly much of a suprise, as it was always a cesspool of corruption. I would have thought Neverwinter prevailed through the spellplauge, guess not

As for the warlock, I'm pretty sure D&D were experimenting with this class in 3.5 right? However I'm sure they made it a staple class because WoW did right?

Honestly wtf is going on with this Sh!t???

 

The 4th edition is not going to ruin D&D. Each new edition brings changes and thos who played the prior edition prefer to stay with the D&D edition they prefer. Ask others who grew up playing only AD&D 2E on their thoughts of D&D 3E? I was one who stopped all my D&D purchased and for a while did not even buy NWN because it used 3E rules. After many years away I decided to give it a try and it isn't all that bad; that same thought will be said of 4E. From all I have seen and read about 4E it seems like it is a cominbation of 2E and 3E and taking the best of both games and combing them to simplfy each part to make the whole easier to understand and be played, which isn't a bad thing.

As for those of you who are 3E fans and will never buy 4E, please think about what you are saying. You may miss out on a good campaign with some friends because they swithced to 4E and for what it is worth, you will regret your decision later on after you realize the added benefits 4E offers.

Too all of you out there playing 4E and who have plaed 3E and 2E what is over all feeling of 4E? Is it a simplified combination of 2E and 3E? Is it a better gaming system than the encumbered 3E? Does it do a better job managing saving throw and attack than 2E?

 

The Saves and Attack bonuses wern`t complicated in 2ed. It was simple mathemathics. 4th ed is no were near 2ed in any way, rule-wise. It uses the same stats (str dex etc), but thats it really. Its not a mix between 2ed and 3ed, its a mix between world of warcraft, and pokemon cards. And YES, I have actually tried 4ed, today infact. Played for 4 hours. None of the people in the group will ever recomend it to anyone, nor play it again. We have more or less switched to the Conan rpg anyway, by Mongoose. Uses the d20 rules, so its basically 3.5ed, with some changes. Great fun.

 

Some time next aspring, they will be putting out a second PHB. I have read that they will be including new races (probably that would be where Gnomes and Half Orcs would return). Also, in the one apendix of the Monster Manual, there is rules for playable races, but more for the purposes of making NPC's of that race (although you could make a PC of those races, but there would not be racial feats available at this time).

I'm guessing that Bards, Monks and Druids would take some work to fit within the framework. Likely PHB II will include a Primal power source, which would enable return of the Druid and Barbarian (Druid as a Controller, Barbarian as a Defender or Striker). Bards would be an Arcane Leader, and would have their abilities to disrupt the enemy's focus and/or inspire the party to greater heroism. The Monk might be delayed for a future source book. There was talk of Psionic and Ki as power sources. The Monk would get their powers from Ki, and would likely be a defender.

As for the Warlock, I don't know that it would be a response to WoW. There have always been stories of people who make Faustian deals to gain power. The new system for designing classes made the idea more viable in the game.

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Munchkin Blender: I haven't actually campaigned, but I did some testing of the combat system. It is more tactically demanding, and the powers are nice. It gives the plaers some pop at first level, then adds to it as they go along. The magic items are nice, but not overpowering.

I like the system, and can't wait to get a campaign group together. Maybe if I'm lucky MSN will connect adn I'll be able to get my cousin and maybe a couple other players. It will likely be putting a party together then trying a couple fights, but it might be the fix I'm looking for...

 

I knew there were psionists around in d&d (perferct psionic handbook or watever it's called) although are they actually a stable class?

 

The racial traits in this edition is just odd. It differs completely (in most cases) from 3.5 ed. No explanation is gives for this. Half-Elves for exampe have a +2 con and +2 charisma. Humans have no bonuses, but you can pic 2 stats that you can increase by 2. Elves have +2 dex and +2 wisdom. So why the heck does a half-elf get +2 con and cha? Neither elf, nor human has any bonuses in this. Doesn`t make sense at all.

Ohh and if your dwarf stands next to an elf, he gets increased hearing and eyesight (perception skill goes up). No explanation for this either. Makes sense?

Halflings have no penalties to str anymore. So a halfling fighter is just as strong as a dwarf fighter now. Just as strong as a human too, I guess.

Dwarves gets proficiency with hammers, thrown and melee ones, now. So they have stopped using axes suddenly. Hammer is their racial weapon.

Elves don`t get longsword proficiency anymore. Just bow. They stopped training with the longsword, after thousands of years, suddenly.

Tieflings got a +2 int, and a +2 charisma now. Thats an increase of 4 charisma points, from 3.5ed (they had -2 charisma before). I guess they got charismatic over night. All of them have long tails, and horns now too. So no subtle demonic traits anymore.
Aso if they get attack bonuses vs enemies that has managed to hit them. Since they are blodied, they get some frenzy thingy. They have +5 fire resistance as well, wich increases as they level-up. So effectivly, the more they learn, the more resistant their body becomes to fire. Makes sense.


Bard, Druid, Barbarian, Sorcerer and Monk, are all removed. As is the Gnome, and the half-orc.

So at the moment, people like Jan Jansen, Jaheira and such, don`t excist anymore. Not as a player race\class anyway.

Alot of wepons has also been removed, but only one new one has been added as a replacement (as far as I can tell). And that is the Katar, of Diablo II fame. (big surprise there). Its listed under Superiour Weapons. Along with Rapier and Bastard Sword.
Composite bows are among the missing weapons.

And they call this an improvement.....

 

Silvershield: Not yet. I think they've been trying to do something withthe idea of mental powers since first edition, but they have yet to get it to the point where they were comfortable putting it in the core books. I look forward to seeing the 4th edition attempt.

Rawgrim: The rules were released in their most basic form. Within a year, we will be flooded with material to choose from, so most of the stuff you are upset about losing will likely see three to five attempts to re-create by various companies...

That said, I don't care for the Tiefling...

 

Gnarf: Why do you keep defending this stuff, its the most obioud trash known to man. Just curious.

No enhancemet to the rulses will make this game a good game. Its complete trash. Pokemon cards mixed with world of warcraft. Thare are no other ways to put this. Its dumbed down for people with less of 50 I.Q score to play. And thats me being frank about it.

 

um, a katar is a punching dagger, it's the traditional name for it

A friend of mine has been bugging me to play 4e for a while, but as they're insisting I go buy my own miniatures for it and the more I hear about it the more 3.5e appeals to me. I think I shall refrain.

 

Good choice. Belive me: they are doing their best to emulate Blizzard`s video games, in every way. They even have the feat\skill tree, you get when playing diablo. now. Just picture the difference between Diablo 2 and Baldur`s Gate 2, and then remove it. .It looks like MTV, trash. Made for the masses, to be popular for 1 week, and thats it.

 

It depends. IMO with the exception of the Soulknife, imo the XPH psionic classes are fairly decent, and even the Complete Psionic ones are ok (again, with one exception - the Divine Mind is BS).