Attack on Falluja gets under way

Remove all ads!

I checked this in a history book and you and Darkwolf are of course right. The democracy constructed by the US, but it really does not change my point that there's a major difference between Iraq and Japan. In Japan there was no major resistance against US troops and they pretty much accepted everything they were given while in Iraq the US occupation lacks the local support.

As for the "being in ruins" part. Let's just say that compared to Germany, Poland and Soviet Union Japan had not suffered equal destruction. Sure it had suffered of major bombings and two of its cities were completely destroyed by the nuclear bombs but the destruction in Europe was far greater than in Japan both in the amount of material losses and civilian casualties.

 

They're bombing the mosques. Being a Muslim, I find nothing to be more offensive than that.

I hope every single ******* involved in that attack on Falluja dies a miserable, painful death.

 

If anything the troops should be praised for their restraint. If it was me and someone was shooting at me from a mosque I would reduce it to rubble and turn it into a latrine.

It isn't easy to fight a war when we still have to be "civilized". Who would have thought civilization would be a handicap.

 

Which is why civilized countries dont fight war, war isnt civilized. One would think that our history would have thought us that by now but noooooooooo.

 

The insurgents are at a disadvantage anyway. They have small arms and rockets, they are heavily out numbered by us troops, they are targeted by long range weapons, they do not have aircraft, tanks etc so I think that bombing mosques is not very necessary.

As Faraaz says its very offensive so its going to encourage more insurgents, as is killing civillians.

If some foreign troops blown up your places of worship and killed your family who had nothing to do with the war would'nt you want revenge?

The Iraqi's need to be helped not blowing to pieces.

 

Do you guys know that the death toll in Iraq of civilians since the arrival of American forces there is 3000+ ? That's 3000+ innocent people, who had no connection with the conflict in anyway, other than the misfortune of being bystanders in a country, where America wants to impose its "democracy".

How many people were killed in the 9/11 attacks? How many injured? The injured toll is currently 15000+ in Iraq. That's atleast 18000 killed or injured Muslims, bearing the brunt of America's arrogance.

@DMC: I understand that the soldiers have no choice, but as a Muslim, I cannot condone the destruction of Mosques, no matter what. Yeah, they should take the guys out without bombing the mosques. I understand why they are doing it, but I still cannot, under any circumstances, even THINK about condoning the American activities. I wish those marines would all get killed, but unfortunately, since America has the advantage as far as manpower, weapons, infrastructure etc goes, we all know that isnt going to happen.

Also, did you guys know that the marines in Falluja are considering "any man of an age to carry weapons" an enemy? (according to ABC news)

How many innocents are going to die now? And for what?

Just so Bush can show the world how high and mighty he is, by killing all the Muslims his father couldn't?

 

I think that bush is going through a mid life crisis. While some men of his age buy a Porsch or similar big car to compensate for their small 'members', Bush has decided to wage a war and show that he has the biggest weapons to make for his small 'member'.

Maybe you are right Faraaz that he is trying to out do his father.

 

@ Faraaz

By all accounts, you are greatly low-balling that number. The number of deaths to civilians in Iraq number in the tens of thousands. Total casualties, counting deaths and injuries exceed 100,000.

 

Faraaz I agree that bombing mosques is wrong and that the US is not doing enough to perserve those sites. But your idea of innocent and mine are two different things. You are also naively assuming all civilian casualties are inflicted by US troups. The execution houses found in Falluja are proof that this is not one-sided.

Unfortunately, the Iraqi people are caught in the middle between violent factions (who do not act according to their own beliefs) and a very determined, well-trained armed force.

If the Iraqi people would turn away the foreign insurgents and build their government the US would leave. That is what the American people want (to be out of Iraq), President Bush and Congress knows this. American politicians will not be re-elected in 2008 if the war continues much longer (re-election is the primary motivation in all politicians).

 

Faraaz, please let me tell you that many, many Europeans are just as appalled by what is happening in Iraq. I hope you and your folks know that a huge majority here distances itself from this. From all of it. Just as much as we dislike people saying "If it was me and someone was shooting at me from a mosque I would reduce it to rubble and turn it into a latrine." Regrettably, there is nothing we can do about it.

We know the value of cultural heritage and historical buildings, their value to a people. We also know what it is like to lose them. Others dont, it seems.

 

But Dendri, I still don't see how you can say it is worth even MORE deaths to preserve a building.

Say 50 insurgents are holed up in a mosque. You bomb the mosque are there are 50 deaths. Conversely, you have 500 US troops storm the mosque, during the course of which all 50 insurgents are killed along with 100 U.S. troops (the defending troops have an obvious tactical advantage). In this scenario there are 150 total deaths. I can understand the value of buildings with historical and cultural significance, but I don't see how these things outweight 100 human lives.

 

@ BTA I dont need to comment your statement given the numbers of dead Aldeth and Faraaz provided us with.
~
Aldeth, you are correct. In the immediate situation its the right thing to do. Agreed.
But how many humans will be killed because of the destruction of the building? How will those people respond to whom it was something special - a holy place even?
And what will it make your nation look like? You have lost too much ground among other nations already.

 

I also agree with you Aldeth, but not everyone does. Most high ranking military officers know that things are sometimes more valuable (at least the ones I know).

Did you know that people are killed every week trying to rescue photo albums from a fire? People will defend to the death or kill over items of significance -- whether it is a place or possession. The Arc of the Covanant and Temple of Solomon are biblical examples. You can just read in a few other pages of the same book the retribution of the "holy" on the "defilers." (to tie in another post....)

Strategic goals must be followed even if it means giving up a tactical advantage. The strategic goal is peace throughout the region and destroying mosques will not help that goal.

 

you dont have to use weapons which cause collateral damage to get terrorists out of a building, there are lots of paths available.

and BTA: people attack the US over this because they shouldnt be there, then they wouldnt be being shot at and there wouldnt be fighters taking cover in buildings.

and what you have to remember about alot of the fighters inside these valuable buildings is that they are not taking cover inside the building - they are fighting for their country free of the US and foreign infulence, they are protecting these buildings from falling under foreign control and being desecrated by the foreign presence.

 

Evidently, being reduced to rubble is. Go figure.