Being truly evil

Remove all ads!

There really should be an option to go to the temple and steal from the collection plate...

 

As far as I'm concerned, the whole notion of reputation is flawed and can therefore be abused by [insert cheesy tactic for changing reputation here]. A reputation should precede you. Why should my nightime assassination of a peasant in Trademeet, without witnesses of course, alter my reputation in some shop in some other city?

The problem is that there seems to be an odd relationship inherent in the game between being evil and being stupid. Wouldn't an evil character, thirsty for gain, *desire* a high reputation? Wouldn't they feel cheated that they had to go to a friggin' temple and spend ten grand just so they could buy stuff in a store?

Shakespeare: "My tables, my tables... meet it is I set it down...that one may smile, and smile, and be a villain!"

 

Gonzago, I rather spend (wait a sec, guessing now) 7000-8000 gold coins in order not to pay an extra 100% on the item that I want to have. So what would you do?

And BG2 is a game, YES. Thats what I have been trying to point out. Sigh.

 

So, if I am a Lawful Good fighter-type with a really really high reputation, am I paying less for shop items than I would if my rep were lower? What other hidden advantages of a 20-rep am I not noticing?

 

Paying less for your wares is not a hidden thing. It is in your manual with tables and all

You probably are aware of the fact that some evil NPC's wont travel with you anymore when your rep is 'too' high.

Darn! I wanted to search for more, but now my manual is hidden...

 

Ok, desu, my turn to sigh. I'm *agreeing* with you. The point I'm trying to make is that it runs counter to the whole idea of a *role playing* game for a character, particularly an evil character, to knowingly participate in actions which would prove financially detrimental to his/her party. But the BG reputation category is there and cannot be ignored. A truly evil (and in the alignment descriptions you'll find that "evil" is almost interchangeable with "greed") character would not kill a peasant in broad daylight in the street just to keep Viccy or Edwin or Korgan from leaving the party. But in this game he is obliged to do so. Nor would a merchant give a good goddamn about his clients' reputation, but in this game they do.

And given that reputation is an indicator of how you are perceived by others, why would not an extremely low reputation *improve* your standing with Athkatlans who are not good-aligned? In the purely Machiavellian sense, isn't it just as (if not more) fruitful to be feared as it is to be loved?

So, to conclude, do whatcha gotta do (donate, kill peasants, SK, whatever) to alter your reputation. It's far too simplistic a litmus test of character in this game, IMO.

[This message has been edited by Gonzago (edited April 10, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Gonzago (edited April 10, 2002).]

 

Like I dont know its against the whole idea of roleplaying, but like I've pointed out before, this IS a game.

And a game can only try to simulate the real thing, which imo BG did nicely, but in some areas its way too difficult to resemble the true AD&D.

 

I know the evil path is more challenging, as it should be, but I would have liked to have more of an assentive to play as evil. I mean what's the point of having a weak EVIL character?? Evil people have always been more powerful than there adversaries, that way they don't have to run away like a little school girl when he's destroying everything that stands in his way of achieving his goals. I know that the HUMAN
FLESH ARMOR and SOUL REAVER swords are nice, but what if my character isn't proficient in these items, then what am I supposed to use, harsh language?!
It seems to me that Good Aligned characters get everything, Holy Avenger sword, Good bonuses in THE NINE HELLS, and even DISCOUNTS on ITEMS!!!!
So I ask again, shouldn't EVIL ALIGNED CHARACTERS have less handicaps???

 

I think Extremist should make a patch where your Reputation for Evil characters gets you good bonuses. get me?

eg. Say you are powerful netrual evil Mage with a Rep of 3, Despised. Now if you walked into a shop, would the shopkeeper say:

- "I'm sorry sir, i'm not going to sell you this because i don't like you" (the shopkeeper gets fried)
- "That ring you're buying for 1000gp? Hang on! Im selling it to you for 2000gp instead!!" (shopkeeper gets fried)
- "Well..he-hello there s-sir.. You w-want that.. I-I could g-give you a d-discount?"
(Mage get's cheaper item)

OBVIOUSLY the third!!!
I reckon the lower the Evil characters Reputation, the cheaper items he should get, because of his reputation for being a [Cold hearted killer, Ruthless Murderer, Arcane Devilish Mage etc]!!!

What do you think?

 

I am in complete agreement. Some fatass merchant with six hit points and an AC of 11 isn't going to up his prices when staring up at a badass kensai with a THAC0 of 2 who happens to be wielding a sword that can suck the soul from his body...particularly when said kensai is the *son* of the god of *murder.*

(Think of Tuco in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. Not only did he get the best pistol, the merchant forked over all the cash in the till.)

Incidentally, does anyone know why on earth your reputation would go up in the underdark (when you free the human slaves) given that you don't reveal your name and look exactly like drow?

 

The game's system of reputation is kinda flawed.
You whack a peasant when nobody sees you, bang you lose 3 rep points.
A stupid shopkeeper sees a Half Orc, dual wielding Axes, breathing some green air into his face and he's gonna ask for more money?

It doesnt make sense . Thats why you ought to do other things to achieve the effect you want .


And the bonusses in the Nine Hells, I think (some) of the Evil choices have better ones.
***Spoiler***

-Sarevok = evil +2 strength ; Good +1 Wisdom & +1 CHA
-Greed (blackrazor sword) = Evil +15 HP ; Good: +2 to all saving throws
-Selfish: Evil +2 AC ; Good 10% MR
-Fear = evil +2 CON ; Good: imm. to normal & +1 weapons.
-Pride = Evil +200000 EXP ; Good: 20% Resistance to Fire, Elec. & Cold.

In general the good ones are better except for the Greed Tear, you get to keep the blackrazor sword, which is awesome AND the Sarevok Tear, its better to take the evil path (imo). But, one major drawback here, it changes your alignment .

Greetz.

[This message has been edited by Desu (edited April 11, 2002).]

 

Thank you Gonzago!

For agreeing with me...I really need to talk to Extremist for getting a patch for Evil Reputation.

 

No sweat.

Something tells me, however, that talking Extremist into this isn't going to be all that easy...

 

Something tells me... you're right.

 

Something tells you... RIGHT!

That thing would not be a patch, but a tweak. Don't mix those words.
But who knows, I've recorded the thread in favorites, perhaps if I manage to get time in the future, I'll make it.

One thing, if someone else starts making it and gets into any problem, I'll be happy to help. Oh, and forget the shopping discounts. That's too much, plus for the reputation you talk about gets Athkatla forces on your back. I'm not sure shopkeepers in Athkatla should be worried about your reputation.

[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited May 07, 2002).]

 

So if i tried to make it..how would i go about it. and if evil-reputation doesnt affect shop prices..what WOULD it affect?

 

Evil reputation in BG2 DOES affect prices.
Besides CHR modifier and number of items, reputation does this to base price:

rep....price change

1. +900%
2. +900%
3. +100%
4. +50%
5. +40%
6. +30%
7. +20%
8. +20%
9. +10%
10. no change
11. no change
12. no change
13. no change
14. no change
15. -5%
16. -10%
17. -15%
18. -20%
19. -25%
20. -30%

[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited May 07, 2002).]

 

That is SO tight!

it costs 900% extra? can you sell stuff for more though?

[No, this is table for buying prices - Ex]

[This message has been edited by Extremist (edited May 07, 2002).]

 

I meant affect them in a Positive way!!

 

You may alter REPMODST.2DA file, the data for reputation modifier is inside that file.

But let me remind you that doing this should take huge amount of time to add proper dialogs for all shopkeepers in BG2.