Berserker vs. Kensai

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A potion of defense in place of the Robe of Vecna would put that AC at -10.

 

Kensai. But for any difficulty of type Hard+, I'll take my chances with a Berserker thank you very much.

 

@Scythesong: Long time no see dude!

As I have said before, The Kensai is just a class that does not put much fun into the gameplay. And the Berserkers are the norm of fighter...

Go for the Berserkers, they are definitely more fun to play with...

 

each ones tastes and preferences

i would rather take a paladin over a fighter being the fool of justice as i am heh.

 

While a berserker or a monk would be better for taking through the game, a maxed out Kensai will easily destroy either of the above. So... Maybe the raw power is why.

 

@Zephyr Angel
Been busy with school...

I agree that the Kensai is easily be one of the most destructive forces in the game, but surviving long enough to wield that power is another matter entirely.

Maybe that's why dualling a Kensai into a mage can make it overpowered.

 

The berserker's the better survivor.

The kensai's the better destroyer.

I guess it depends if you like seeing exploding critters everywhere. If so, then go for the kensai.

 

Well, Aldeth, if you're looking at a baseline of level 20, then the power levels are comparable. In TOB, on the other hand, level 20 is a low level, and the kensai will continue to improve, while the Berserker wil stay static. So generally, at level 30+, the kensai will be quite a bit more powerful then the berserker, while the AC difference is moot as everything in ToB hits you anyway. Rage helps, but the enemies that it served you against in SoA, such as Mind Flayers and Vampires, are not nearly the threats in ToB.

I'll also agree that Kensais make much cooler roleplaying characters. A fighter whose technique with a sword is SO polished that a protective measure such as wearing armor is too restricting is just so cool. Meanwhile, when I picture a berserker I get the image of a viking barbarian, complete with a bear skin pelt cape, frothing at the mouth as he bashes things with a hammer or axe. He must have inherited all of Bhaal's recessive genes, methinks.

I agree with Death Whisper, though: Paladins are cooler then either. For Justice!

Just two questions:

If you dualled a kensai to a cleric (despite the roleplaying nightmare) could it wear armor? I've heard that the berserker/cleric was quite the incredible class.

How much does Minsc's berserk resemble the berserker's one? The reason being, as far as paladins go, I think the Inquisitor is the best, but I'd advocate taking an Undead Hunter if any, because you can find an Inquisitor in the game. Same with a berserker; you already have Korgan, but if you're playing goody goody, does Minsc's rage give the same benefits? If so, then you can acquire the berserker's benefits through simple outsourcing.

 

No - Holy Cow that would be overpowered! But it is allowed as a valid dual-classed character.

Think Anomen, but a whole lot better.

He doesn't get the same immunities to spells as the berserker does. For example I tried having him go berserk against the demi-lich, and he got imprisoned anyway. Plus, when you berserk the PC or Korgan, you still retain control of the character. Minsc just starts swinging at everything, and will even hit his own party members at times.

 

Some thoughts.
There's something else that makes a difference between a character who wears armor and one who doesn't. The Kensai will get hit more and will suffer much more damage than a Berserker.
The point is though the Kensai deserves his title as a destroyer, in a typical BG2:ToB Hardcore+ environment this is just not the case since he ends up getting destroyed almost just as fast.

 

Frankly, I can't picture a naked Child of Bhaal getting hit by the Ravager. It's almost unreal.

AC may not play a factor in ToB but armor does. The berserker is still allowed to wear armor so they get benefits, especially if the armor is enchanted/magical.

 

A kensai has HP, which blows armor down the toilet in ToB. Like I said, a monk or a Berserker will fall to him.

 

Doesn't the berserker have the same hp as a kensai anyway?

Doesn't Demogorgon have -12 AC?

I think a red dragon - Saladrex - has -12 AC too.

[ June 05, 2004, 12:03: Message edited by: The Abyss ]

 

I can't agree that AC makes no difference, tho.

I had Jaheira swinging away with -15 AC, and comparing that to -1, well...
She became mince before she could do a thing (playing on Hard + standard ToB developer tweaks).
With -15, she can hold her own with all the B class fighter PCs (ie anyone not Korgan, Minsc or Saverok).

Regardless, it's all moot - a sorc would eat both kensai and his zerker dueling buddy for breakfast.

(just thought I'd stir the pot )

 

There s a very old arguement about this in the forums somewhere... And you'll be surprised how little chance a sorc has against a Berserker.

 

My sorcerer dude could gate in three pit fiends and let THEM do the work for him before he starts to summon a few more cacofiends to do the bloody job. In other words, the fighters will all pay the price! Not to mention the sorcerer could also do a Simulacrum, and then, do another spell on the fes.

 

Provided, as always, that he isn't chunked within the 8 seconds it takes to get a spell off. After all, those greater deathblows and greater whirlwinds are quite formidable. And then it's hard to have even a pit fiend deal with hardening x3...

 

Hah - get real.

It's called Stoneskin, Prot Magical Weapons, Prot Normal Missles, Stoneskin contingency/Chain/Cont, gives you all the time in the world to get off a Time Stop.

Then what you gonna do?

I'll tell you what, swordwielder.

Stand there and look stupid.

Alacrity, Spell Sequencer (pierce shield lower resist, malison), Trigger (malison slow chaos), minor seq (acid arrow and spook), albidaalzim, comet, whatever...timestop.

Rinse and repeat. Throw in a wish for some fun. Might get something insanely good (double length TS+IA or rememorise), and heck, just go up and slowly thump big muscle man into unconciousness over the space of 2 turns

I think my record number of spells of 5+ cast time released in one time stop was around 18 or so, allowing me to not only cast every defensive, defense-busting, offensive and random-fun spell I felt a vague desire to...but also cut and, should I desire to end the cruel game, repeat the time lock indefintely Much for fun to let it expire and watch him wander witless and confused swinging at light fittings.

Heck, as a sorc I could just stand there and pop 15 finger of deaths at him until he got a bad roll, or do it properly and prebuff with several malisons (try saving vs death with a -14 penalty, or spells with -18 )

Sorceror is the very embodiment of robust potency, and you'd best not forget it; far superior to my taste even than those hopelessly fickle and specialised 'mages'. Bah.

But this is a gross thread hijack, and I apologise.

I really do not know who is the better playable build - kensai or zerker - but they both are cool

[ June 07, 2004, 17:33: Message edited by: Daemonlaud ]

 

Provided of course, that the Fighter's have the ability to see through Staff of the Magi's invisibility!

Also provided, the fighter can get through Stoneskin, Protection from Magical Weapons, Fire Shield - Blue, Blur, Mirror Image, Mislead and Shield in those "8 seconds".

Also, it takes hardly 2 seconds to fire off a Chain Contingency of 3x Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting set for "Nearest Enemy".

This is stupid, it might be worthwhile to argue over the eliteness of Kensais and Berserkers...but Sorcerers are so much more powerful than Fighters, its not even funny.

Edit: CURSES, Daemonlaud beat me to it. Ah well...you get the point!

 

At everyone talking about the sorcerer destroying a beserker, keep in mind that you only can get one contingency off per round. You can't fire off a contingency, chain contingency, and spell trigger all in the same round, unless you cast improved alacrity, which takes too long. I agree that the winner of the battle will be decided in the first round of combat, but keep in mind some things:

3X Abi Dalzim's won't kill a fighter with hardiness and decent resistances.

Stoneskin does NOTHING to prevent elemental damage.

A beserker, while 100% resistance to mind-affecting spells while beserk, can easily have a magic resistance upwards of 80% (not counting items like cloak of cheese) at all other times, so any direct damage spell isn't doing much.

Pit Fiends and Cacofiends? Bah! If we're talking about a sorcerer with access to multiple 9th level spells, and beserker of similar level is going to eat such pathetic foes for breakfest.

EDIT: Why am I wasting my time - Scythesong can do a much better job at this arguement than me.