Best cleric 'special powers'

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This is another one that seems to depends on playstyle. The +1 to hit with axes lasts all game, but Tempus' Strength only lasts for a few rounds. Of course, if you rest twice per map, you can effectively have Tempus' Strength on all the time.

However, Tempus' Strength and Bull's Strength do not stack.

Bull's Strength gives up to +5 STR (cast it until you get a roll of +4 or +5), lasts one hour/level, is available to nearly all casters, including both major casters (Cleric and Sor/Wiz), *and* the game provides you with several wands. Therefore, the default assumption is that you will have Bull's Strength active nearly all the time.

Therefore, Tempus' Strength effectively gives you +1 to hit and damage -- for one large battle or two short ones.

EDIT: dammit kmonster. I started my post before you made yours.

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They do not stack; I just tested it.

In general, you are correct to assume similar effects do not stack.

Neat that you can cast it on an ally, though.

 

From the poll, I chose the Tempus bonus (just don't screw it up by taking Fighter levels!).


Not on the poll: The Banite bonus (unlisted) is by far the best one.

 

It might be powerful when you get it when most of the game is over, but the Tempus Axe benefits help so much all the time that I consider them superior if you consider it for the whole game.

 

i voted for both Axe feats and Tyrant's Dictum.
Quantity and Quality. Axe feats arent the best thing ever, but they sure are supreme in feat savings, 2 free feats, which are actually useful, no improved turning thank you very much.

Tyrant's Dictum, acting as a third pip in SF:Enchantment, which just so happens to be one of the, if not the most powerful magic school in iwd2, certainly beats everything in terms of quality though.

 

Tyrant's dictum only gives +1 DC, a simple spell focus feat grants +2 DC.

 

This "only" bonus can double success rates for Will spells.

 

If +1 DC doubles the success rate, it's not worth casting the spell.

 

But Tyrant's Dictum works on ALL will-save spells, unlike Spell Focus: Enchantment. So now Silence (Illusion), Horror (Necromancy), Symbol of Hopelessness (ALL), Dispel Magic (Abjuration), and many other spells all get a +1 Difficulty Class. If banite is taken as mix-in, the +1DC can be used by mages, bards, etc.

The +1DC may not double the success rate of important debuffing and disabling spells, but its helpfulness seems greater in gameplay, than the predicted 4.5% boost to its success rate.

As for what is the most powerful magic school: I couldn't say, really.
Enchantments are very effective in disabling weak-willed enemies, but they lose their usefulness when fighting demons, and some enemies are immune. It is poor against opponents with strong willpower, like clerics.
Necromancy has powerful and damaging spells, but undead and demons are again immune to its effects. Unfortunately, the fortitude saving throw bonus is often higher with powerful and dangerous monsters.
Evocation is the best damaging spell class, offering a wide range of area effect spells, and utilizing the poor reflex save of many large monsters, and clerics. But care should be taken in avoiding damage in your own party.
Transmutation is often the forgotten spell school, and no monsters have an outright immunity to the spells in this school. There are similarly Transmutations that target all three of the enemies' saving throws, for example: Entangle goes for reflexes, Slow targets the will, and Disintegrate attacks the fortitude.

It's hard to say which is the best choice, but if you have specialists of all four schools in your party, you'll have a much easier time.

 

Im still not getting what are you trying to say. Are you disagreeing that the Tyrant's Dictum is the best domain ability?(it is) Or agreeing? Because other spellfocuses can double success rates as well. So?..

coineineagh
4.5%? If an enemy has to roll a 10, an additional 1 is a 11% boost already. And it only gets better with more difficult enemies.

 

When saving throws are made, the attacker uses his INT/WIS/CHA modifier, plus the spell level, plus any spell focus bonus, to calculate the total Difficulty Class of a spell.
The defender gets his saving throw bonus to add to his dice roll, when he tries to roll a save. He rolls a 1d20 (twenty-sided die) to determine whether he saved or not. Each result of a d20 should be 5% chance.
Spell Focus adds +2, and Tyrant's Dictum adds +1 to the Difficulty Class, meaning that these feats will make a difference to the save roll in 10% and 5% of the time, respectively. Now the reason I used 4.5% instead of 5%, is because DC doesn't matter when rolling 1 or 20 on the d20 die, because then the defender always fails/makes the save. So DC only matters on 90% of the dice rolls: 9/10 of 5% is 4.5%

What kmonster meant when he said: "If +1 DC doubles the success rate, it's not worth casting the spell." Was that if your success rate is doubled (from 5 to 10%, or: enemy fails save when rolling a 1 or 2 instead of just a 1) with this feat, then casting the spell was very ineffective against this monster, because his saving throw bonus must be too high.

That being said, I think that the game is still bugged in the favour of Spell Focus and Tyrant's dictum feats, so these will help out more often than the calculations indicate. And I do agree that Tyrant's Dictum, depending on your playstyle, can be the best cleric ability - I voted for it too.

 

Not quite. 5% is an increase of good dice rolls. They may represent different resulting percentages. One you have already noticed, having to roll 1 or 1&2 is a 5% difference in dice rolls, but 100% difference in charmed enemy result.

Forcing an enemy to roll an 11 instead of 10 results in 10% more charmed mobs. That is 11 out of 20 vs 10 out of 20. I admit this is confusing.

 

1 divided by 20 is 0.05, or 5%. every +1 to DC makes the results 5% more positive for the caster. I'm not sure how you come by this 10% of yours, but I'm sure you're mistaken. When rolling a 20 sided die, every increment represents 5%. This isn't regarding the natural 1s and 20s yet, which DC doesn't influence.
Example:
10 out of 20 is 50%
11 out of 20 is 55%

 

55% is 10% more than 50%. Not 5%. Eleven is 10% more than ten. (100/10)*11=110. A more usual example -An axe with a critrange of 20. Increasing the critrate by 5%, as you say it, doubles it. We arent getting 5% more crits with a range 19-20. We are getting 100% more.

Doesnt matter in our case.

 

But you're rolling a d20 die, so why are you comparing the results to 10? Can someone back me up here? 55% is 5% more than 50%. Every increment on a d20 die represents a 5% chance. Increasing DC by an increment of 1 will influence 5% of saving-throw outcomes (you're rolling a d20, twenty-sided die, remember?). That's as good as I can explain it, I'm afraid.

I'm not sure actually, but I always thought that rolling a natural 1 or 20 will fail/make a save regardless. There are D&D comics that write about this, and I'm sure it's in the game rules. If IWD2 doesn't apply it, then it's a mistake in the game.

 

Well it does matter, you are right, but it doent in a sense that we are talking about a slightly different issue right now. Sure only 18/20 rolls are affected. Getting from 1 to 2 out of 18(or any number) is still not 5% (or 4.5%). My math skills are insufficient unfortunately to remember all this theory to the point that i could write it down. Probably we should go learn math instead of discussing it here.

 

If +1 DC doubles the success chance it is 5 percent without and 10 percent with the bonus. If you rely on spells with 90 percent failure chance you really must love luck enforcing by reloading.

 

coin:

I don't think this is correct. From memory I tested it, and sorcerers/mages do not receive that +1DC to their arcane spells.

 

Thats true. So what you are saying is that spellfocus and Tyrant's Dictum feats do not work on spells with less than 90% failure chance? Have i understood correctly?

 

I think he's saying that doubling your chances of success is trivial if the 'chance to succeed' was low in the first place.

Upon re-consideration, I'd say that Tyrant's Dictum is the best 'special power'. I guess it counterbalances the lousy second power Baanites get.

 

Tyrant's Dictum is bugged!

Well, I was curious to see if you were right about this, so I proceeded to check/test it myself:
I was unable to find the code in NearInfinity where Tyrant's Dictum is applied; it isn't anywhere near the conventional feat info.
So I tested it by looking at the game data, but unfortunately the spell DC modifiers aren't visible in the game data, only the opponent's saving throw and bonus.
So I hadn't found a way to test for Tyrant's Dictum or Spell Focus feats by looking at game data. Which means I'll have to test it through trial and error...
HOURS LATER:
OK, so what I did was, I used the spells Command and Charm Person on a single character with +8 will save throw bonus: Dargab the Slave Master.
My two clerics and my bard cast them.
Before taking a banite mix-in, my bard (22CHA, GSF: Enchantment) required Dargab to roll a 12 or lower to fail his save. After taking a mix-in of Dreadmaster, Dargab was still only affected when he rolled 12 or lower. So it seemed that you were right. But I found it very strange, since the Tyrant's Dictum should be incorporated into the character's abilities, and work in tandem with bard spells. So I did a little more 'investigation':
I had my two clerics cast Command on Dargab.
* My Lathandrite has 18WIS and no focus in Enchantment.
* My Banite has 18WIS, GSF: Enchantment, and Tyrant's Dictum, naturally.
This would mean that the Banite's Command should have a +5DC bonus over my Lathandrite's. After a long time casting the same spells, I found that my Banite succeeds when Dargab rolls 10 or lower, while the Lathandrite succeeds when he rolls 6 or lower. This is a difference of four, not five. I checked carefully, and there are no other factors that could influence the outcome.

The only conclusion I can possibly draw, is that:
Tyrant's Dictum is bugged, and doesn't work at all!
This makes it in fact the worst cleric ability of them all. I wouldn't be surprised if the game designers incorporated the +2WIS quest for Banites, in order to compensate for their inability to activate the Tyrant's Dictum ability.

Still, in light of this quest bonus, and the apparent usefulness of a Dreadmaster's Enchantments, I'd still go so far as to say that they are one of the best clerical orders to play. Even as a mix-in they are still very useful, because of the quest.