Bible verses regarded as hate literature

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Morgoth, Depara et al, please do not tell us that religion excuses you from thinking?

Just look at the examples I brought up above, please, and tell me that just because "the bible says so" it's right, We must live by it, OK, good etc, etc, etc.

It is not, because we're not in a society today that compares. At all. Doesn't make the faith wrong, that's your choice without a shadow, but, please start considering some of the texts in a more relevant context, like today.

Oh yeah, and statements like 70% of Aids etc, etc, etc. Come on. Sorry, no, COME ON! We are not stupid enough here to debate AIDS as Gods revenge on gays? Are we? PLEASE either get to grips with reality or grow up. There is NO excuse for statements like that other than ignorace. Oh yeah, and you can catch it from handshakes, toilet seats, etc, etc. Please!

Latches, thanks for introducing some facts into the above.

 

It is not so strange that large parts of humanity seems to have some kind of faith, it is a human trait and need to explain the unexplainable. Every people everywhere have had its religion to explain their world around them and to give them hope for the afterlife. We want something to believe in, otherwise life is very scary and uncertain. But that doesnt mean it is true.

I would also like to see some numbers of the 70% of the aids victim are gay please. It is true that AIDS is easier transferred through anal sex but it works almost as good with vaginal intercourse.
But the greatest spreader today are needles, when the drugaddicts shoot up their horse they very often shoot up some HIV as well.

 

Viking, I´m a atheist, nihilist even.

With my statement I meant only humans could accept religion, ever seen a bunny praying??

 

Well, according to the CDC numbers, if you consider only the US and make a few different assumptions about a lot of ambiguous numbers you might be able to get the number up to 70%. For example, 80k of the cases that were reported did not give a cause so maybe if you had an agenda you could disregard those or try to justify counting some of them as being related to homosexual activity. Also, 50k of the cases like mentioned above were from people who were homosexual and injected drugs and they aren't sure how they got the virus. You could make some assumptions there too if you had an agenda.

I will say this, in the US the number of cases of someone getting the virus from drug use is significantly lower than the number of people getting the virus from homosexual activity. It's all in the link above.

It would be interesting to see figures for Europe, etc. The thing that made me disbelieve the 70% number initially was Africa where AIDS is running wild. I couldn't believe that 70% of the people in Africa with AIDS got it because of homosexual activity given the little that I know of the culture there.

 

Before I give the wrong impression, let me state that I am in favour of 100% free speech, so I personally do not support this ruling.

However, I think that this particular situation is being misinterpreted. I've lived in Saskatchewan and I can see some of where they're coming from. First of all, Saskatchewan is a very Christian province, it is not remotely multicultural, so this is definitely not a case of Christians being oppressed. And I can almost guarantee that a Quran quote with a similar meaning would have been punished exactly the same way.

But most importantly, the high proportion of Christians in the prairie provinces, particularly in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, has sadly translated into a high proportion of hate crimes: synagogues and Jewish cemeteries being vandalised, gay men being "baited" and having the snot kicked out of them. A friend of mine had both his cheekbones broken and one of his eyes destroyed by a gang of teenagers on his way out of a gay club in the prairies. So this is a part of the world in which everyone, especially well-meaning Christians, panic when people use the bible to promote violence against a particular group. We've seen exactly what it can lead to with the smallminded. If the bible verses quoted had NOT included an exhortation to put homosexuals to death, it would have been a different matter. But for people living in an area where such exhortations are all too often taken seriously, it just hits too close to home. ESPECIALLY for Christians who are ashamed of atrocities committed by other people calling themselves Christians, in the name of Christianity.

 

Viking, I have never used my religion as a shield from thinking. I'm not going to use this forum to explain all aspects of the Christian faith from my perspective, but suffice it to say that while some things have obviously changed from the Old Testament days, others have not -- I believe the basic precepts of the 10 commandments were mentioned earlier. Now, to most Christians, homosexuality is one of those things that has not changed -- it is still wrong in their eyes.

A few decades ago, a homosexual could be prosecuted for his orientation. I believe that it is good that this sort of thing has changed -- the state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation. Such prosecutions were unfair and wrong. Now, though, if someone speaks their opinion on the orientation, THEY are the ones subject to unfair prosecution. I would agree with said prosecution if the ad said "go out and kill gays" or "50% discount for anyone who buys a baseball bat for the purposes of smacking gays around." The ad in question said neither thing, or even came close. It makes no logical sense to say the ad endangered gays, any more than for me to say the anti - christian sentiments expressed here endanger me.

 

You don't think this encourages violence towards homosexuals? Hmm. I imagine if anyone you loved was homosexual you'd have a different opinion.

 

Spite, that is a totally sweet quote.

Sounds like Old Testament. Smiteing all the Gays, and whatnot.

 

Ah yes... good ole freedom of speech, and good ole Christianity in the same topic. How refreshing. And throw in the gay people too... if this was in the One Forum time, we hwould have a flamewar.

I personally think that the whole thing actually IS Christianity-bashing, no matter the fact that it IS hate-speech at the smae time. I don't have a Bible at hand, so I can't scheck it, but´if they are all along the lines of Sprite's quote, then I DO classify it as "hate-speech" kind of an add, when it is taken out of context. In this case, it has been. And look and behold, it has turned into christianity bashing.

I am not a christian. I am definitely in favour of free speech, and I definitely approve gay people.

I might not approve lots of things the Bible says, but at least I can see when something is used as an excuse to bash it...

(Gone now..)

 

Yup its verse Leviticus 20:13

Link to the International Bible

The Old Testament is a bit bloody dont cha think??

Priest - Okay, who threw that stone??
Crowd - *female voices* She! She! errrr... *fake male voices* He! He!
P - Why did you do that??
She/He - Because he said Jehovah!!
*S/H gets crushed under rock for saying Jehovah


[ February 22, 2003, 23:29: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

Well, they were certainly a cheery and understanding lot back then
Maybe a flamewar would be a refreshing change to all this logical arguing

 

I´know it is here SOMEWHERE... *me wanders off to use the search function*

Here: http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=003610#000030

Originally posted by our dear Sprite, this little letter is quite funny and shows how out-of-date certain things can be in the modern times... but what I'd like you to take notice is the bit of text BEFORE the letter. The part stating that this Dr. Laura person is not a Christian. So it's not only Christians who can be completely bigoted on some matters based on certain texts...

And no, I am not trying to discriminate other people. I jsut recalled the exiistence of this topic and went to dig it up because I thought it relevant. Sorry if I offended anyone in advance...

I wonder if it was a mistake to dig it up, but what is done is done....

(*wanders off to read things most people would run in fright from*)

 

I go away for a few days, and suddenly we Chrstians are getting bashed!

/me draws Greatsword, +5/+10 vs Skeptics, Atheists and Agnostics

Seriously, lets take a step back.

1) Christianity is Extremely Rational. Lets open another thread on that and get down and dirty. Who is more logical? Who is more coherent?

2) Deepra (sp?) Welcome! Lets talk about your missionary years sometime. Who, where, when, etc?

3) The Old Testament is VERY BLOODY. It was supposed to be. If God is holy, then everyone who disobeys him deserves to have their blood spilt. The miracle of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection is that all the bloodshed commanded in the Old Testament now falls on his head. He took the curse for me, and for all who believe, including homosexuals. So the punishment perscribed in Leviticus has been suffered by Jesus. By faith through Grace (loaded words) our impunity is transfered to Jesus, and his rightousness is applied to us. I believe that my pride, lust and deciet are on the exact same level as homomsexuality. Both are sinful, and both are forgivable.

And before you ask, some of my best friends are gay.

 

Sprite, you came close, but no cigar. I have a gay brother. I may disapprove of his actions, but I still love him. The fellow who took out the ad was simply illustrating the fact that the Bible has always disapproved of homosexuality. He cited all the relevant verses he could find. He did not incite anyone to do anything violent or illegal.

 

Personally i can see how the advert could be seen as hate speech. and i think context does not come into it, The bible clearly states that Homosexuality is wrong.

PS i believe in God and i have nothing against Homosexuals, but i do not believe in the Bible. I think anyone who bases their belief on a book written by five scribes, 100 years after the death of jesus and on biased accounts of bloody history is very gullable to believe that it has anything to do with the wishes of God.

The fact is, that there have ALWAYS been homosexuals, and there has always been hatred towards them (Mostly from the male side). And i bet that the bible was not written by an early descendant of Oscar Wilde, if you get my meaning.

 

Imagine if it had been a crossed over picture of a black man and references to Mein Kampf? It is the exact same thing imo.