Big BAD America

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Sprite! Damona wasn't making a personal attack! You yourself said she was making a comparison...and if you read her post again, you'll see she wasn't even talking about the issue of this thread, but rather with a general statement about stereotypes.

I think everyone just needs to cooooooool off. Remember, there are young members on this board...we don't want to scar them.

And back to the original topic:

I feel the same way as Satiana. Come spend a week with my family: a large, traditional, religious family. Don't even start in with the religion bashing. My mother cooks and cleans (and ENJOYS it too! No, I'm not bashing feminism.) My father is a wage earner, and all the kids help do chores and house work. Spend the evenings watching a family movie and laughing at my father while he attempts to get the grill going. Watch us while we gather at night for "family time" and approach my parents with questions - they are understanding and helpful...try to ignore my stupid dog.

In the end, you'll see that the American stereotype is wrong. Watch too many episodes of South Park and Friends, and you'll never discover the truth.

 

Yes, it's true. America determines what happens in national courts around the world. No one is allowed to administer their own justice. Only America's will is done.

Oh, please.

 

Xaelifor, what the hell are you talking about? I don't know if your post was supposed to be satirical, because I stopped reading at:

Do you have kids? Have you been present at a child birth? If so, you might want to move. I have a child and he did not experience this at birth.

Trying to make Americans sound like sheep is not very useful. I realize that you live in America, and maybe you are a sheep. But don't think that the rest of us are like you. This illustrates the differences found in this country.

Sprite, get off your high horse. It's okay for you to make statements in anger, but nobody else can? Damonas statement was a general attack on stereotyping. You stated:

Maybe you should quit while you are ahead. If I were like you, I would believe that all Canadians are aggressive and rude. As well as close minded. I might even start stereotyping. But I'm not like you. I believe that you are misguided and angry. You hold onto what you think you know, rather than seeking truth. This is the root of ignorance and intollerance.

 

What a lot of people seem to forget is America is just one big country full of the rest of the world's people. The only people here were the native americans. When you bash america on a whole you are potentially bashing your own people. If representatives of various cultures from all over the world came together in ONE country, you would expect to come up with both a lot of GOOD things and a lot of BAD things. And it seems like it's a hell of a lot popular to focus on the bad things instead of the good. Wake up! You can't blame America without blaming your own people who immigrated there as well. Where does America get its values? From both the good and bad aspects of cultures from all over the world!

As for the journalistic idiotically over-generalizing and moronically biased tirade on American life a few posts above, all I can do is sigh and speak BTA's words...

"The skeptical mind will use stereotypes as a starting point when true knowledge is lacking."

 

I wasn't even going to make the pretense of defending myself against the fact that certain people think I'm a "typical aggressive American". I have no need, as that statement seems to speak for itself.

Still, though, I thank you Shralp, thank you Sapiryl, [edit: I take that back, BTA, I thought you got it, but I reread your statement, and I don't think you really do], and thank you Jack Funk for showing me that my efforts here are not for no reason. I also want to thank anyone who honestly and truly doesn't buy in to the stereotyping.

[This message has been edited by Damona Silvercloud (edited April 24, 2002).]

 

Big B: No. If you're a us citizen, you're a "proud american individual". Not a european or african or chinese immigrant. If what you're saying would've been accepted by the US, it wouldn't have been able to stand on its feet.

I also find it amusing that ignorant people love to accuse others of ignorance for that is part of their ignorance as well. This is not particularly aimed at anyone. Just an observation. Make of it what you will.

 

This is long.....

Interesting views considering the oppressive threat world wide that one might make themselves an enemy of the United State of America. Very interesting. Some may even state that the USA currently is filled with Blood Lust and no one can stand against them.

I am an American Citizen. I was born here. Generations of my family go back for hundreds of years here in the USA. All, born here as well. I studied Theology, World History and Political Science in College, became disgusted with the reality and truth of things and dropped them all. Got a degree in Computer Science instead and have gone that route ever since.

However a saying from China (if recalled correctly) proves true, 'If 10,000 people believe a lie does it make it true?'. Or if nearly 300 million here in the USA believe a lie does that make it true. Or even all 6 billion on this Earth, would that make it true.

The fact is, what world empire that has ever existed in history has been Benevolent? Righteous? Good? Not one. Including this country that I live in, the USA. Can you think of one world empire that was… Good?

True there are many good things that you could find here in the USA, just like when Britain was the ruler of the world, or Rome, etc (when I say world rulers I specifically indicate the dominance, control and influence over the greatest numbers living at the time). How many bad things can you find here. And who is able to define just what is considered Bad on this earth today? Or Good for that matter? Usually it is the one who has the most power in the world. What if there was a country that had power in every way? All of the posters here know good and well who that would be today.

My opinion is this. Every world empire that has ever existed has been hypocritical and vicious. Period. With some good in them, but not even close to what horrors they delivered to other humans on this earth. And that range goes from rape, massacre's, slavery, genocide, pillaging, too political treachery and broken treaties.

I've lived in Southern California (born and raised in a different state)for over a decade now and see quite a bit when it comes to America and it's legacy. I also work with many different people from all walks of life racially, religiously and politically. Since 9/11 of last year the underlying feeling's of many cultures have surfaced. And sometimes being the only American born person in the discussion I have learned a lot. A large measure of the world despises the USA. And it's not based on jealousy, specifically due to the wealth and power of the USA. Nor is it based on some unfounded bigotry. - I say unfounded because if you know someone who is a true A-hole and nearly everyone agrees for example, you feel that you views are well founded for treating that individual poorly.

A lot of what I find from my discussions are that foreigners have a disgust of the Arrogance and Hypocrisy of the USA. I think others here quoted from the Bible so I'll add another: 'First remove the rafter from your own eye then you can see clearly how to remove the straw from your brother's eye. -Jesus Christ. Additionally the thoroughly disgust with the non-inclusive/narrow minded practices of the USA is at it's highest and at many levels. From the Government to the every day civilian.

I know other Americans absolutely hate when ideas are expressed like mine (from a fellow countryman) but then they would be hypocrites of the 1st amendment wouldn't they? As well as the credo manifesto of the USA as the shining example of freedom and freedom of speech in the world.


[This message has been edited by Draco Vlasavius (edited April 24, 2002).]

 

This thread has veered wildly off topic.

The question is (I think): Why do people from various parts of the world feel the need to push their hatred, disgust and intolerance of the U.S. and its people in our face?

The question is not "Why do you hate the U.S.?"

We know why.

It has been discussed in several other threads, all of which are equally unpleasant and drawn out.

So I think the point of the topic was not, in fact, to start a new pissing contest, but to find out why we must sit through the re-run episode of the same pissing contest over and over again.

So I'll restate the original question:

Why do you feel the need to tell us that our country and our people are vile, depraved, fascist, loud mouthed, arrogant, inferior, uneducated, ignorant, intolerant, stupid, cultureless, barbaric, untalented, overweight malodorous shitheads*, on a regular, and consistently repeated basis?

Does it make you feel better?

Are you afraid someone would accidently think you liked the U.S.?

Did a U.S. television executive or movie producer hold you at gun point and force you to watch their commercialized crap?

Is it on your mind all the time and you just have to get it off your chest?

So get back on topic people: Why do you need to constantly spray your hate-filled-drivel when we've heard it all before?

*Personally, I don't like hearing that I'm one of those (I know, I know, before you say it, it must be true... but I still don't like hearing it.)

 

Whom are you calling malodorous?

[ August 07, 2002, 19:59: Message edited by: Shralp ]

 

Hint: It's called exchanging ideas and gaining insight to what and why some people think the way they do.

Obviously, you already do have those but not everyone else does. If you're saying we don't need to hear these, then i beg to differ. In any case, you're free to not read any of it if you feel like it's the same old story again.

 

Invoker, I'm all for the exchange of ideas (especially the intolerant, stereotyping, hate filled ones.), however I think that most of the replies on this topic, were not on topic at all, and I was merely hint: exchanging that idea, I was hint: sharing my insight to what and why I think that this topic has gone horribly off course.

As for reading, or not reading the hint: exchange of ideas going on here, I think they would be better exchanged here:
http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000784.html

or here: http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001485.html

or even here: http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001495.html

or heck use the search engine and find even more of the pointless "your country sucks and so do you" posts.

 

hehehe this argument will never stop.......Damona you may think these people are ignorant but you are just the other end of the scale....that makes you ignorant too.

The great thing is that i have just realised what the problem is! The americans think they are greater than they are.........the others think the americans are worse than they are.....this argument will never cease! God you don't seem to understand how sad we are all being...i hope some others will see the light too.

meanwhile i will stand here on the front row and cheer for both teams. but for now i say GO AMERICA! hehe.

 

Just like to say that niether me nor anyone i personally know, hate the US and it's people. Sure i've felt a tiny bit of resentment sometimes during the few minute mistakes they've made during the odd war but these things just happen. I'm British and i love the US, most Brits do at least LIKE it. The only bad things i've ever heard said is about the 'weight problem' of the US...WHAT BLOODY WEIGHT PROBLEM?!!
Sure alot od middle-aged are fat, but who can say everyone middle-aged they know isn't slighty podgy around the waste? When i look at the USA these days i see a nice thriving nation, where people are free and happy. I've been to the USA and few times and loved it, almost everyone was nice and polite, the weather was great, i LOVE the smell of inside american cars (don't ask) and RED LOBSTERS RULE!!! I can only speak for the Britsh town that i live in, but we deffinatley don't hate the USA, far from it.

 

Will someone please put Poodle down for his nap?

 

Sprite, if it's any consolation -- the French were VERY rude to me when I was there about two weeks ago. And I speak French.

 

Failure to recognize that American culture is widely influenced by various other cultures of the world, because it is essentially a by-product of all the other cultures, is neglecting an important fact. For that matter, it goes back further, all cultures can be traced back to the begining of civiliazation. You can't totally shoot down and ignore this. (hint: talk about ignorance and arrogance ) So really it's not about opposing cultures, it's about mankind in general. And the point is: mankind on a whole is tainted. We want to split ourselves up into groups, so that we can cling to them and bash others? Fine. But that does not negate that we are all humans to began with. And all humans have faults.

Take a hint

 

Artechoke: You missed the point. The original post was: don't post stuff about america or americans if you don't have anything good to say.

And that alone interferes with our precious "hint".

Anyway I won't be posting in this thread anymore as you've requested.

EDIT: BigB: That is exactly what i said. "Choosing the lesser of evils". Did you read my post?

[This message has been edited by Invoker (edited April 24, 2002).]

 

/me gazes with big eyes at the length of her thread!

OMGoodness! This isn't what I was trying to get at. This is exactly what I was hoping to stop.

/me shrugs

But, at least it has turned into more of a discussion than a rant fest. That has to mean there has been some improvement.

right?

[This message has been edited by Satiana Fearbringer (edited April 25, 2002).]

 

Let's just recap what happened here. This thread opened with a post about "the 'Let's blame America and American's [sic] for everything attitude' that seems to be immulating [sic] in the topics around here". Interestingly, only one thread active at that time had anything to do with America at all: one I opened, criticising the events surrounding a single US military action. Yet, apparently that was enough to prompt yet another "How dare you foreigners criticise America" thread.

I pointed out, gently and without referring to any one individual, that some of America's poor international reputation was not entirely unearned, but prompted by enough bad-apple Americans misbehaving abroad to give decent Americans a bad name. In a subsequent post, I pointed out that this is how most countries develop an international reputation, and admitted to the grains of truth in negative stereotypes about all three of my nationalities. At no time did I say that all, most, or "the typical" American behaved this way - only that enough did to create and sustain a negative stereotype with a hint of truth to it.

In response, I have been accused in this thread and two others of "long-winded American bashing" , "spreading messages of hate", being "on a high horse" and "hating everybody", and called "hateful", "snide", "presumptuous", "snotty", "degrading", "sarcastic", "inflated", "nasty", "prejudiced" twice and "ignorant" six times.

Now, if I'd consistently demonstrated dislike of the United States or its citizens, I could perhaps understand such a vitriolic overreaction. But on the whole, I have praised America far more than I've criticised it. In the last few months (and even as part of this thread) I've written favourably about American manufacturing, American expertise, American inventions, American men, American film, New Orleans, and free enterprise (which was not invented, but certainly mastered, by Americans). When, in a recent thread, Americans were attacked for their high obesity rate, who was the vigourous defender of American lifestyles? Why... I was. I have also, on these boards, ardently defended against criticisms of Christian fundamentalism, which is mainly an American phenomenon at this point in history, although I am neither a Christian nor a fundamentalist myself.

Now, those of you who wish to climb aboard the personal attacks bandwagon, you are of course free to do so. I value free speech a lot more than you all seem to- strangely enough. But consider that in this, or any other international forum, you are an ambassador for your country. You can reinforce the stereotype of the aggressive, blindly patriotic, contemptuous American (as others in this thread have done so well). Or, like BTA, Invoker, and (usually) Shralp, you can demonstrate the education, intelligence and sense of humour for which Americans are also known.

It's your choice, but if you choose to epitomise a negative stereotype, you have no one to blame for the continued existence of that stereotype but yourselves.