Cheats vs Cheese – How Do They Differ?

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Here are my thoughts on the matter:

CHEATS

• Using cheat keys, such as CTRL-Y (duh!)
• Using Shadowkeeper to give yourself abilities that you shouldn't have, items that you haven't earned, etc. (double duh!)
• Exploiting bugs in the game, most notoriously pickpocketing yourself an extra Ring of the Ram / Ring of Gaxx. Hey, it's your game but I hope you feel wretched when you unleash two Ram blasts on Kangaxx. Keeping Blackrazor by pickpocketing the tear from the genie in the Test of Greed probably falls into this category as well. The "fake talk" so-called-tactic is another exploitation of a flaw in the game engine.
• Stealing items from a fence and selling them back to him ad nauseam. Might as well use Shadowkeeper or the CLUA command to give yourself the gold.
• Summoning a demon to fight. Again, you might as well use Shadowkeeper or the CLUA command to give you the XP.
• Using the mods that remove the XP cap or the maximum spell level.
• Using mods that ruin game balance through stupidly powerful items, NPCs or character kits. Note that the Baldurdash fix packs do not fall into this category as they generally fix items so that their abilities match their descriptions (e.g. fixed Azuredge).

CHEESE

• Exploiting limitations in the game engine's AI (e.g. setting traps around Firkraag or Adalon, cloudkilling Firkraag from the fog of war, etc.). Setting traps around the Shadow Dragon is just about OK as he's not aware of your existence, but otherwise definitely not. This also applies to exploits such as Sanctuary + Blade Barrier.
• Exploiting the apparent inability of intelligent monsters to open doors (e.g. open door on mindflayers, unleash cloudkill, shut door).
• Using unbalanced bonus pack items, most notably Shield of Balduran, Vhailor's Helm and Robe of Vecna. They take a lot of challenge out of the game. The Cloak of Mirroring may well fall into this category as well.
• Stealing weapons, armour, etc. from stores. It's fine to steal Ribald's Ring of Regeneration but would you really be able to shove a suit of full plate armour up your jumper?
• Repeatedly going through areas that spawn monsters for the sake of a few extra XP. Cheating your way to the XP is a lot easier.
• Killing an innocent or changing into the Slayer to keep Korgan / Edwin / Viconia in your party. These actions should have serious repurcussions, IMO, such as loss of Paladin or Ranger status, or the good-aligned members of your party turning on you.
• Taking Yoshimo to Spellhold purely for the sake of getting his heart.
• Using Project Image to summon more creatures than you otherwise would be allowed to. Also using scrolls or special item abilities from a Projected Image - these should be illusory and using them is exploiting the game engine.
• Playing the game as a Kensai-Mage. How many forum posts do you see which begin "My Kensai-Mage..."? It depresses me.
• Setting your charisma to 3 so that you can set your strength, dexterity and constitution to 18. You would have gross deformities, unpleasant body odours, antisocial habits and an annoying voice. Who would follow you? Likewise, lowering your intelligence: who would associate with a dull-witted moron?
• Basically, if it feels unrealistic (or at least less realistic than a fantasy-medieval world should be) and it's not downright cheating, it's cheesy.

ACCEPTABLE TACTICS WHICH SOME MIGHT CALL CHEESE

• Using a hidden Thief / Ranger as a forward observer for your Mages' artillery. Start with a Web, follow with a Cloudkill, spice with Greater Malison and toss in a fireball...
• Getting Iron and Adamantine Golems stuck in doors / caverns / narrow passageways and killing them from a distance. They're mindless automata: use this to your advantage.
• Using powerful scrolls from a simulacrum. Unlike a projected image, a simulacrum has real copies of all your stuff - they can whack creatures for real damage with a cloned Staff of the Magi, after all.
• Setting traps around Irenicus on the Tree Of Life. He's not aware of you so why not?
• Killing liches and other undead while protected from undead. Again, they're not aware of you, so why not? Admittedly, they should take evasive or defensive action. The fact that they don't is not your fault.

While on the subject of cheese, I've always felt that it's kinda cheesy to take on the Slave Lords for the sake of getting your hands on Celestial Fury. I always do it myself, admittedly, because Celestial Fury is the best weapon in SOA (better than Carsomyr IMO) and better than most weapons in TOB. However, since the plot elements leading you to them have been taken out it just feels like you're breaking into somebody's house.

Final point: an acceptable use of Shadowkeeper. I don't know about you, but I hate the BG2 character portraits so I use Shadowkeeper to restore the superior BG1 portraits. Now Jaheira looks like someone you could fall for. Also, I use Shadowkeeper to alter Jaheira's weapon proficiencies. Apart from giving her two slots in darts, could the BG2 designers have made them any worse?

 

Alright kids - this concept has pretty well been beaten to death. No one is offering up any new epiphanies. I wonder how many times we can each go around in circles saying EXACTLY the same thing as the last guy said. This is the most redundant thread I've ever seen.

Yet I keep posting in it...

That in itself seems redundant...

Irony...

 

I was wondering AGAIN, that do you consider this as cheesey-weez

My current technique (and which i've found a good one) is to use Project Image to summon my mordes, and send him/her take the blows with the summons while my caster remains safe elsewhere.. I think it's not partyally cheese (but I do use some Time stop/Abi Dalzim/Banshee scrolls sometimes/mostly to boost up), but i'm asking your opinion.. Since imagine your self as a bhaalspawn, knowing that death would end it all, wouldn't you use a copy of yourself than put your life in the edge/committing suicide? =)

 

Okay, Rabbit, I'll put what will surely be the last cap in this thread's azz.... LOL

"While on the subject of cheese, I've always felt that it's kinda cheesy to take on the Slave Lords for the sake of getting your hands on Celestial Fury. I always do it myself, admittedly, because Celestial Fury is the best weapon in SOA (better than Carsomyr IMO) and better than most weapons in TOB. However, since the plot elements leading you to them have been taken out it just feels like you're breaking into somebody's house."

I've always just been annoyed by the idea of having to randomly break into locked houses (in both BG games) in order to get quests, especially when you're supposed to be the good guys. lol

"Final point: an acceptable use of Shadowkeeper. I don't know about you, but I hate the BG2 character portraits so I use Shadowkeeper to restore the superior BG1 portraits. Now Jaheira looks like someone you could fall for. Also, I use Shadowkeeper to alter Jaheira's weapon proficiencies. Apart from giving her two slots in darts, could the BG2 designers have made them any worse?"

Sorry, but scimitar and sling and sword and shield style seem the best way to start her, IMHO.