child pornography

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OK, so this begs another topic to be opened: what do we tell our children? Can we empower them? They are going to be confronted by authority figures who do not deserve the power they weild. Our innocents cannot be taught simply respect authority and adults, they must be taught to examine a situation and make their own opinions. They need to learn survival techniques, and in my opinion are not too young to do so.

I had to deal with creepos so early in my life, just on my quiet street, thru the telephone, and on the way to school as well. They are around, and I am teaching my daughter to trust her own judgement about people.

 

If you wanna join the cyberwar against pedo´s

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Scarampella you're right we do need to teach our children more and keep them informed. But the clash from this will be the traditional "respect your elders", the "your teachers are right" etc against the new way of thinking they will have. While personally I believe it's about time for a revoloution in they way we all think there will problems along the way obviously. In my experience the witch hunts and campaigning starts to falter when it begins to have detrimental effects on those doing so.

What do we actually them though? IMO the truth and how to deal with it. Ofcourse, how to deal with it may differ from others views on how to deal with it. But in the reacent years it has been highlighted as a serious problem that is extremely widespread all over the globe, with people in authority being these sicko's. The witch hunts that always start at the out rage always demand better safety measures being implemented by those authority and the blood of who did this, always jumping at the first person to be accused in connection with it. Perhaps they should look to starting these safety measures themselves as you have done with your daughter, and if they want blood they should make sure that the person isn't being used a scapegoat for such a serious thing before getting the gallows set up.

 

Let me go out on a limb here and predict something:

Pedophilia will become what homosexuality is today: accepted by a sizable percentage of the population and ignored by another hefty proportion with less than a majority remaining to voice objections.

They've already started down the same track with an article from the APA stating that pedophilia is actually natural and not harmful for the adult or the child. That article was shouted down, but there will be others. There is already NAMBLA, the North American Man-Boy Love Association, which works to promote acceptable of consensual sex between adults and children.

They will continue in the same way: using "equal rights" as their rallying cry they will declare that all they want is the same rights for their sex acts that normal people already have. They will be unrelenting. If anyone dares to stand against them, they will be accused of being hateful and divisive. For every study put out showing the adverse affects on children, a pro-pedophilia group will put out another one "debunking" the other study. They will cite various moments of history in which pedophilia was accepted. They will discover previously unknown or unacknowledged rites bonding men and boys together and declare that those relationships were sexual in nature.

Then they will enter the schools and initiate programs introducing the students to adult-child relationships under the guise of helping them to avoid being judgemental when they discover one of their classmates is in an adult-child relationship. At first only the "progressive" schools will do these, but soon they will sneak into public schools -- first in California and then on the East Coast.

Before long you'll have a lot of people openly advocating the acceptance of pedophilia, some people trying not to deal with the issue at all, and far less than a majority outraged by the way things are going. It's only a matter of time. And some of you on these boards will see it happen in your lifetime.

 

I have seen child pornography on the web. It was mixed in with a normal porn site. I was browsing a certain, normal, adult LEGAL pornography site (no, i'm not ashamed to admit it), when I came across a small section, where there was a girl, no more than 11 years old, being... well... you know... It's all cleverly hidden away. Disgusting and in-human. Made me feel sick. I can't see how someone could possibly find anything erotic about these photographs.

 

What is the difference between a Pedophile and Child Molestor?

 

A pedophile is someone who is aroused by children.

A child molester is someone who molests children.

In my opinion, (and I do not care what people make of this, it is my opinion) pedophiles can no more control the way their minds work than homosexuals can.

Pedophiles are aroused by children, homosexuals are aroused by people of the same gender.

Before you go all homicidal on my butt, I am not grouping gays with pedophiles.

It's the way their minds are hardwired. You know how there are people out there who hate themselves because of certain things? I feel confident when I say that somewhere out there is a guy who hates himself because of his reactions to children.

Sure, some pedophiles are scum, they are the ones who act on their desires, they are the only ones the public hears about. So the public assumes that all of them are scum. I have no love lost for the ones who attack children, yes, they are sick individuals, but I do feel sorry for the ones who can't come forward into this world of ours and seek help, because they will be labelled a monster.

Continuing the above comparison, there is another fundimental difference between gays and pedophiles. The pedophiles desires are wrong. The ones who hate themselves know that. If the world could stop being so full of itself, they could seek help. (I don't know, maybe it's a psychological way of wanting to reclaim your youth. I'm a writer, not a shrink. )Then there would be no excuse for it, and no reason to have child pornography. That's when we could begin labelling those who don't seek help as scum fairly.

That's my view, and I know I have a right to it.

 

Soul makes some excellent points.

Just one note;

Do you view this as the most important reason to phedofiles still roam the world?

Although alcoholics are not viewed as monsters, hardly all of them go to theraphy. Some remains addicted. Even in public. They have no dignity and integrity left. They just don't have the willpower to cease the day. Likewise even if phedofiles are not viewed as monsters, some wouldn't have enough grasp of reality to seek help. So it is false to say, that it is soceity's responsibility through its monster labelling that so many phedofiles still remains unhelped. They would be here no matter what.

Whatever triggers that sick behaviour remains shrouded though. This is the price we pay for beeing 6 billion people stuck in a high speed hyped up world. Some just click. The world is sadly big enough to hide them from the helping hands. Its too easy to step out or even be pushed out of society, and remain there.

That is what we have blame if we want to find the strongest roots to phedofiles' roaming. Not monsterlabels. It only plays a minor role. But nevertheless it plays a role as you say. You have a good point there

[ January 02, 2003, 16:53: Message edited by: Nobleman ]

 

Dude, it is so totally freaky how some adults can be aroused by a boy ... just plain nasty. I'm 15 now and I can recall a few years ago when I was told of the existence of such people. It disgusted me and I never would have come even CLOSE to being aroused by the adult, I mean, as a boy you usually don't find older guys attractive -it just doesn't work that, it's not natural. I would never want to, say, kiss a guy. Unless the boy was gay, but even then not very likely. I therefore disapprove of "men-boy" relationships because there just plain isn't any room for it in a boys mind. I call those kinds "gay pedophiles". Because like, it's not enough that they're pedophiles but also homosexuals at the same time.
The other kind (that likes younger girls)... well, at least you got the right gender. It's fairly common to hear of some girl who has a crush on the guy from whatever higher grade. Such a kind of love could even exist between the two - but not between a boy a man .. oh no...
Don't get me wrong, I'm against child abuse. It's the same as rape - if the target doesn't want sex then you have no right to force it upon them. But pedophilia is a different matter. Being attracted is one thing. The girl might even have a crush on the guy, and what's the matter with that? (provided of course, that no rape occurs).

The only thing half of you are doing is just getting angry (Kill em! Kill em! Kill em all!!!), I mean come on, you're just reacting. Better discuss then yell it. You might even come to some sort of understanding.

And what's that whole business with fake images of underages?? You mean people create images?
..........
...so it's like seeing an image of a topless woman on some (legal) porn site but it's really ... fake.. ok.....whatever...

P.S. What does IMO stand for?

I'd write more but I don't feel like it and I think I might have lost my original idea of this post. I mean I might have gotten off track ...

Well, erm, see ya

 

I would like to say that the torturing of pedo's is extremely inhumane. I agree that its OK to do it to a saddist or to a pedo who tortured a child, but let's not be so general about it.

Nailing some guys testicles to a table is just plain cruel (although if he murdered, then maybe...). But such acts are in fact ILLEGAL!

Toruring others because of their state of min, ugh, that makes me sick...

Perhaps we should make some categories?

-Gay pedophile
-Sight pedo
-Touch pedo
-Sexual relationship pedo
-Murderer/Saddistic Pedo
....

[Instead of posting again, we prefer that you edit your last post if nobody has posted in between - BTA]

[ January 02, 2003, 20:53: Message edited by: Matthew G. ]

 

And the rest doesn´t choose to be like that?? They don´t just think "Well I´m bored, so lets rape something small"

There is no free will, these actions are all controlled by desires, in fact getting aroused by children is the same thing as being gay, or smoking, it´s unnatural. The only different are the consequences, most people in this world have only eye for the consequences and don´t look at what caused these actions.

(BTW, pedo´s can´t help it, gay pedo´s are evil?? Got a problem against homosexuals?? )

 

Aright, what I suggested was stupid, sorry.
I have nothing against homosexuals and I take back the gay pedos all being evil.
I just believe that the two should differentiated cause they're not the same (though very close).

BTW if I were to say that gays were evil 100 or 200 years ago, no one would say "do you have a problem with homosexuals?".

Though I doubt if pedophiles will one day become accepted. Homosexuals can create relationships between themselves but pedophiles- who are they supposed to go out with? Little girls usually aren't up for it. And even if they are it's illegal (wtf is up with that?!)

[ January 02, 2003, 21:07: Message edited by: Matthew G. ]

 

Hang on for a second, people.

Soul almost got my point.

A pedophile has not DONE anything wrong, yet. They are aroused by a child. What am I saying; HE is aroused by a child.

Yes, there are women pedophiles. But I consider them fairly tame and harmless.

Once you ACT on those thoughts, then you become a child molestor. A pedophile is not necessarily a child molestor; all child molestors are pedophiles (whether it's a dominance issue, or a sexual issue).

Kill the child molestors first. Then the pedophiles.

 

So you´re till in favor to kill people based on their minds, using the statement "yet".

Why not arrest every person with a gun, since they haven´t murdered a person, yet. Why not arrest every heterosexual, homosexual, etc, since they haven´t raped a person, yet.

If you would still enforce that statement, why not arrest everyone else, who might become a future-criminal, who might become dangerous. the problem with that is, no freedom of mind

 

You guys keep repeating yourselves. Which must mean that some of the arguments are true.

I think all you screamers and death-wishers should calm down a bit. If you don't have any sympathy for a person who's testicles were nailed to a table and nearly bled to death, then you become as bad as the creature.

Your religion does not allow murder, and it is immoral to torture.
In fact, by torturing the creature you condemn, you become a creature yourself. Having no regret nor sympathy for a human being and wishing death to them ("Kill the child molestors first. Then the pedophiles.") is as sick as mollesting. Especially towards the pedo. Why kill him if he has not yet commited a crime? Because he might intend to?

As for the pictures of children tempting pedos - well, you might as well shut down all the car companies for making commercials that tempt thieves - and playboy for tempting rapists.

Like Morgoth said, kill everyone else as well. That way, there will be no more crime.

[ January 03, 2003, 23:59: Message edited by: Matthew G. ]

 

I guess now it is the time for my bitter-cynical contribution. A word of warning though: I am deadly logical, I tend to call things by their names, I tend to vex conscience. If one does not want to risk his established and safe self-appeasement system, he should not read anything below.

Things lead to other things naturally. Everything has a cause and a result. Even most normal things may develop in perverted minds into abhorrent aberrations. This way we should be careful about both allowing and forbidding. Banning child, pre-teen and most teen pornography is necessary, but should we (rationally) sent to prison a 21 year old man for photos of 17 year old models like we would do with a 40 year old man? Banning pornography in general may resemble prohibition in action and reaction and needless to say affect science and art harmfully due to more active than rational activity of certain people. We all have free will. And we all have certain preferences. As perfect normality is a statistical figure only, we are all to a certain extent abnormal. I believe the extent is the clue thing. Ones fancy their own gender, others fancy much older/younger people, yet others fancy blondes only, short men only, tight red dresses or long white robes, whore-looking women or holy-virgin looking women, gentlemen or cads, some fancy celibate and chaste priests, monks and nuns. All that is pathological and all that is sick in various degree. We thus have to admit that imposing regulations and limitations in this area we limit some other persons' freedom on arbitrary basis, no matter how moral our reasons are. While it doesn't render our actions morally wrong, it helps to realise and remember the fact. As well as to realise and remember the fact that we are not free from our own cherished tiny perversities. What we must distinguish is the very moment when those more or less acceptable 'fancies' begin to interfere with other people's rights and the difference between sick liking and ill mind. An 80 year old millionaire marrying a 20 year Barbie doll gives the impression of pedophilia/erotomania on one part and Oedipus's Complex/prostitution on the other part. We cannot however and should not ban this. Speaking all this, being 19 myself I have romanced free or four year older girls and I see nothing wrong in that. As for opposite I even remember in the year I was 18 fancying one that was not exactly fifteen. While this could have gone illegal or maybe even did in some way depending on particular laws, what a sane person would call it pedophilia there being 4 year difference in age? I was however informally elected and declared something close to debauchee of the month. Now that seemed more than funny to me, my being the kind of RC that does not even allow himself premarital intercourses and several related things. I believe this is all about specific persons, not about generalised groups dived according to age or social customs. Anyway due to (estimated) physical, psychical, emotional and spiritual processes of maturation and pubescence, viewing a minor below the standard fifteen for our climate as a sexual object is nearly always harmful (apart from sexual-based but mostly platonic relations between kids and adolescents) and should be punished if goes beyond the platonic level whether in deeds or in words even (with the same exception as above). If 16-17 year old females, and very rarely some specific younger ones (taking a small percentage of high IQ ones who have higher mental age, emotionally or spiritually over-the-age mature ones, warm climate regions inhabitants etc), are concerned I believe calling it pedophilia in legal sense is in some cases a misunderstanding. In spite of that, I generally, with few exceptions based on the nature of a particular relationship, view as debauchery the growingly popular and now most common model in my country, which is a 16 high-school girl and a senior student or, increasingly, a graduated guy of over 25 in so called 'relationship' (an overused word in my country) involving sex. The girl feels flattered by the guy's attention due to his (as by her viewed of course) position of power and importance, her feeling of safety is flattered as well as her need for appreciation, economical reasons playing a significant part. He in turn is flattered by the fact that she might well have chosen a younger man in his stead. He views her as the source of youth he lacks and misses and treats her like a piece of furniture or a new pet iguana. When irritated, frustraded, having quarrelled with the boss, or if something went bad in his most precious schedule or his future prospects, he goes to her to release the tention. His manners as with reference to her are all the time at best commonish, but most often of the sort that makes my blood boil. I used to point out such behaviour, but after what I heard from 'oppressed' ones' each time (that's what this kind of mentality makes of them) I now limit myself only to extreme cases. This all quickly and unfailingly includes the "I pay so I demand" attitude. He thinks everything is all right because he gives her gifts expensive for a schoolgirl but modest for his means, pays all bills when they go out, buys her things like mobile phones (aka dog-lace) etc. or simply gives her money (close to 'sponsoring'). The emotions that this concept awakens in me render me hardly able to write. The fact that it is socially accepted makes we wonder how comes that I am sitting here writing and not leaning over the toilet returning my breakfast (forgive my being so expressive).

As all borders innately tend to extend, the above described ones lead to frightening future consequences. And it is apparently going to go much further than what was done with homosexualism when initially a bunch of people forced others to force yet others, thus making the ball roll, to officially view homosexualism as sort of alternative and not as perversity, implying even that it is natural. Some countries call homosexual relations marriages and even allow them to adopt children. Naturally standard heterosexual option is being criticised in media and in some psychological or sociological books. The fad for being 'homo' or at least 'pro-homo' is more and more dominant to the extent of people acting like homosexuals out of shear calculation and of enforced must-be homosexual characters in books and films. I pray to God this stops before it goes too far. What will be next?

 

About getting heated up about women being beaten by men.. Believe me when I say that I've had a great deal of time and experience to ponder over this matter. And my conclusion is quite simple: Let them be.

Men and women, no matter wether they be your own friends or not, are generally incredibly stupid. One that goes for the same type of person all the time and always gets hurt just has to bear the consequences. There are many, MANY men out there who might not throw a big party at the pub, but would certainly give a better and more stable life, and treat their companions as just that, a companion. I've never found it hard to tell different types of people from each other, generally speaking that is.

A classical scene: "oh, that guy there, he's so good looking and charismatic, and he's just so *manly* with women, not afraid to come forth and all". Why is that? He appears charismatic and natural because he is not nervous or afraid? Partially. He is not nervous or afraid because of what? Because, he lacks respect for women. A person like this is always about the most intriguing type a woman can imagine, for they always seem to take the situation in hand. They are not nervous nor afraid to tell things as they are. They are, *manly*. And I've no need to tell what happens when it comes to living as equals and respecting each others desires. This type of male can easily entertain women by allowing them the overhand of a situation in the beginning of a relationship, simply because their lack of respect gives them the benefit that they do not feel a woman as a threat. To give her special rights is no problem since they can be taken away at leisure. This makes them particularly hard to be told apart. But longer into the relationship, when true experiences and desires clash, it will not be a pretty sight to behold when the man removes and "educates" this obstacle that is the woman.

It is easy for me to see these facts of men, for I am one of them. Not the same type of person, but a man nevertheless. I can view it moderately objectively. Still, the same thing goes for women as well. Though women are rarely controllers in the same sense as men. They have more subtle means for it. I've had the pleasure of experiencing a few. The time when it struck me that this girl didn't even realise what she had done, I understood the root of it all. For in many, many cases, neither men or women even understand what they are like. They don't perceive the "evil", the critical flaw of nature, that is in them.

A powerful and charismatic person is extremely rarely a good person by heart, when it gets to a very personal level. For charisma and power to control the general atmophere of any situation are tools for control. Wether that control be directed for good or evil. And when the control is compromised, defensive actions will be taken. Be it a powerful priest, or a charismatic war-leader sought on conquering the world. A fair and uncorrupted judge, or a leader of a group of individuals that act for saving the nature.

This was much what in finland we call, stream of consciousness. It has a name with a similar meaning in English I believe. Anyway, this is a freely quoted thought that is closely involved in my own little childish philosophical thoughts of what the essence of this world of humans is like. In the end, it comes to the balance.

Still, in case this was too long and futile and confusing: there is nothing you can do about people who fall for the abusive bastardly sort all the time. It is there fault as much as the abusers. Only difference is how the situation is handled. Abuser has to be punished for his mistake, whereas the abused one unable to control their lives and learn from the mistakes, have to be sheltered from theirs. Surely I'm not blaming the abused over this. But when it becomes a custom to do the same error again and again, the one who never learns the pit-trap for what it is simply has to take responsibility.

[ January 09, 2003, 11:12: Message edited by: Forashi ]

 

Here goes...

I agree with Shralp. That is what I, too, see in the future... society accepting, no matter how grudgingly, that okay, so that fourteen-year old is shagging someone twenty years his/her senior... get over it.

My roommate is in a relationship with a man tenty-five years her senior. I am not judging her by it... I know she knows what she's doing.

I should say more, but I am definitely larte here...

Ara
(Running now...)

 

Let's not get off the topic, shall we?

chevalier des Trois-Tours, you couldn't have said it better. A lot of knowledge in what you said but still some reactions and emotions going on - i.e. feeling like vomitting. Feelings and emotions like these lead to actions, such as beating (of a pedophile). Let's try to control them.

Pedos also act on feelings. But tell me, how long would YOU be able to last? Say you are who you are, a heterosexual (or other, it doesn't matter) and you can't get a person of the opposite sex because it is considered immoral and wrong. You can't do anything about - unless you force it. After many years, you will want more and more, its only a matter of time before it breaks loose.

As for the idea of killing all pedos... irrational, emotional, and ABOVE ALL ineffective. Why? Because there is nothing you can do to prevent future generation. For all you know, your son could grow up to become a pedohile. What then?

Since there are so many of them out there in the world, it means that it is a characteristic. OK, not the best argument proving it a characteristic, see the first article on this page. As I was saying, this being a characteristic it becomes a part of our society and we must find a way to cope with it, to deal with it.

So what is the solution?

I don't know. But definetly not by sentencing every single person in a relationship or every single person in possesion of child pornography (as is recently being done in the US, you've heard it on the news).