Civ IV Tactics

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Yeah, Gnarff is right on this one. I said two experience points because they automatically get combat I, but that's not the right way to say it, because they still start with 0 XP unless you have barracks. Of course, catapults don't get that bonus anyway because they are neither gunpowder nor melee units.

As for construction, that's along the top path of the research tree. The two requisite technologies to learn construction are mathematics and masonry. Masonry only requries mining, but mathematics requires writing, which in turn requires either agriculture, pottery and animal husbandry, or mysticism, meditation and priesthood (there's two ways to get to writing). Given the options, the former path seems like a much better option, given that you're going to want to start improving land around your cities.

I guess my main problem is that I always fall behind in technologies early on. Unless I'm playing a civ with an organized leader, as soon as my civilization starts to grow beyond around four cities, the upkeep costs are debilitating. To offset this, I usually go for code of laws early on so I can build courthouses. Unfortunately, code of laws give you NOTHING from a military perspective. To worsen matters, there's no prerequisite technologies to code of laws that give anything militarily either.

So I am left in what appears to be a lose-lose situation. If I militarize early, I don't get code of laws, and I fall behind technologically when my science rate drops. On the other hand, in order to keep up my science rate, I'm going to be left with second rate military units.

Anyway, here's what I normally do: First, I get all of the basic technologies that I'm going to need to improve my land and access resources. The ones I'm always going to need are agriculture, mining, and pottery. Next I get the technologies to access nearby resources, and they are selected on an as-needed basis. This list potentially includes the following: animal husbandry, fishing, masonry, and hunting. After that I take bronze working. After that click on code of laws, at which point there are usually three or four technologies that I need to get before I get code of laws. I usually end up trading for construction, because after code of laws, I go for currency, and then guilds, banking and economics. After that I go for liberalism, and then democracy (obviously I'm leaving out a lot of the prerequisite technologies in these descriptions).

EDIT: Maybe it's what I'm building in my cities that's screwing me up. Here's what I do with the capital city at the begining of the game: Build a unit. If population is greater than 1, build a worker. Build a workboat or barracks. Once city size hits 3 build a settler. Am I waiting too long to militarize? I thought initial growth was the most important factor.

[ July 07, 2006, 20:34: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

First, research Bronze Working asap. The idea is to locate copper and connect to it immediatly. The ability to build an axe or two to suppress barbarians is imperative early, and then as the Barbarians let your first axes level to CRIII, replace them with newer axes. Place them in areas where it will distract barbarians from your cities and resources.

Eventually, when you've expanded all you can afford, send an axe with good defences to "visit" a neighbour. Maybe steal one of his workers, but primarily to harrass the opponent. If you have an axeman with Woodsman II and Guerilla I, then fortify him in a forest hill near the city and watch the poor sap try to dislodge it.

Then you need to build your city attack force (barracks will give 4 exp to start with CR I) Preferably twice the number of units in the city you want to take. If there's heavy culture, walls or on a hill, tripple the number or more may be needed. The first ones will die, but will soften the defenders up enough that subsequent attackers can kill the defenders. If you have Chariots with Flanking, they may withdraw after doing some damage still getting 1 exp for the fight.

Once you have axes, your next research priority is Code of Laws then Construction. Only research worker techs (fishing, pottery, agriculture, masonry, animal husbandry, hunting) if you need to harvest a resource or work an appropriate tile. Pottery usually becomes important for building cottages (which will generate commerce for research and paying upkeep). Agriculture is good for farms so that cities rebound faster from any whipping that you find you need.

Fromt he start, Unit first, then worker, then another unit then a settler is a good start. If you have good food, then interrupt the units for the worker at pop 2 and settler at pop 3.

Once you have multiple cities, try to keep one city building units all the time, and with slavery, you can whip all buildings in queue to get all your cities pumping out units if you go to war...

When you do attack cities, don't be afraid to pillage and raze any city that is not a holy city, contain a world wonder or control a key resource. the more cities you take, the faster your upkeep will rise. Sometimes, I even raze the Capital!

 

I would add that sometimes cities are worth keeping even if they don't give any resources or have any functioning wonders. Some cities are worth keeping just for their tactical significance. For example, in my games I usually chose landmass as archipelego with "snaky contents" as the specific land type. There are often points where there is a choke point in the continent where the land mass is only two or three tiles across. A city located there has tactical significance in that if you control that city, you block all land units from getting back to the core of your civilization.

 

The point is that you don't automatically keep the city, and you really need to decide for each city you take. Now in a later game push for a domination win, I keep all of them to hold the land and gain the population, but I can rush courthouses and other buildings that I need to get the city up and running...

 

Revision of tactics still required for me. I played a game for about an hour last night as the Romans. I thought for sure that with upgraded swordsmen I should have been in great shape, but I was sadly proven wrong. The Japanese completely owned me. I was giving a heck of a lot more casualties than I was receiving, but I honestly don't know how they built up so many units! The more I think about it, I may be better off going with the Japanese for the Samuri. Unfortunately, that's more of a bridge unit than anything for long-term use. It's the last non-gunpowder offensive unit, and it is probably quickly outclassed as soon as gunpowder units come on the scene.

 

That's your Problem--Japan. If they get Samurai, they will be really nasty to live with. Either take them down a peg early and often or kiss their ass until you have Muskets and Knights. Samurai are just like maces, but they get 2 free swipes at the opponent first, so your Praetorians and Maces will be less effective.

If you find that Japan is your neighbour, then find out where their Iron is (you were playing Rome, so you would be bee-lining for Iron working anyway). Then send your forces in to keep them from getting iron. If you can trash anty city close, then do it. Remember also that their Axes, Swords and Samurai will get Combat I free of charge, so with just a barracks, you could be sending your praets (8.0, 8.8 if you went combat I) against axes with Combat I and Shock (5 with a total of 85% against your praets, or 9.25).

It you play Japan, there is a gambit called "the Civil Service Slingshot". It basically calls for you to Build the Oracle, get Code of Laws with the Oracle, and Civil Service with the first Great Prophet that pops up. I've heard that some can even get Code of Laws before the Oracle is finished and get Civil Service from the Oracle. Likewise, if you have Code of Laws before the Oracle, you could take Metal Casting from the Oracle, CS from the Great Prophet and if you can get a Great Engineer, that will net you Machinery. If you get the Samurai early enough, then you can mulch 2 or 3 opponents before they can stop you...

 

The Oracle gives you great prophet points? I mean, I can see that, but given that the result is a free technology, I always assumed that it was going to give you points towards a great scientist. Still, I see the religious connection.

Well, I didn't actually pick Rome - I usually just take a random civ and I happened to get Rome. That was kind of an unfortunate draw, as like you said, it forces you to go for iron working early on. The bad part being that iron working is an extremely time consuming technology to research early in the game. Truth be told, I'd just as soon take any other civ and go with axes instead of swords.

I think the hardest part is attempting to mobilize a war effort prior to the development of catapults. Unless you find enemy civs early, you're basically screwed. Even an archer unit fortified behind city walls is a major headache, as it usually requires you to send in 3 to 1 numbers to take a city.

 

And that's what you do.

Send the first few units in to stunt/stall their growth, then when you have the numbers, then you take down the cities.

If Japan is a neighbour, then you want Iron working early on anyway. Knowing where they get their Iron from is more important than knowing where you get your Iron from.

The oracle is straight up free tech. It also gives points towards a Great Prophet, sio if you have the right techs researched, you can get CS from the GP.

 

Oh, I understand now what you're saying now! You use the great prohpet to get a free tech. I typically don't do that. I usually use the great prophet to either A) create a holy city if I have started one or more religions or B) put towards the start of a golden age or C) settle them in a city - the +2 to hammers is a decent bonus early on.

 

It's an option that you have open. If I have a holy city but no shrine, I may use it to build the shrine and get some gold rolling in. Then I can keep my science rate higher and keep up in the tech race easier.

Another thing I've tried a couple times is a "ring map", size small with all 18 civs. I play as the Inca, take out one neighbour with a Que Cha Rush, I got three more out with axe rushes, and tried for a fourth but they brought in Friends, and I couldn't restart military production when I got Maces...

 

I've now resorted to going back down to Warlord difficulty to try and refine my technique. The only problem there is it tends to be too easy. I guess I'm just a pacifist at heart. I can win on Prince difficulty if I go all defense and play for a space race.

 

The game does reward early aggression if it is used judiciously. If you play on a normal map, and raze more then you keep, and keep the heat on, you can get quite an edge. Remember to get Code of Laws early on to build courthouses, and currency to build markets and you'll eventually have a suitable tech lead and be able to take a domination win in a reasonable time frame.

One thing I like about the Inca is that their Unique Unit, a replacement for a warrior, can conduct an early rush themselves, thus putting you over the top earlier on...

 

Well the quechas are only useful very, very, early in the game. Basically, they only have a sizeable advantage when the enemy city is only defended by warriors. As soon as the computer gets archery, the quechas usefulness plummets, due to the archers' 50% defensive bonus in cities.

 

Actually, Que Cha gets +100% vs Archery units, so the first few soften the city defenders while the rest finish them off. It's high casualties, but the extra cities will make it worth while.

Also, if you build a barracks, the 4 exp means that you can select CR I for an extra 20% in a city meaning you're walking into 2.2 vs 0.9 if the city hasn't expanded, no walls and no promotion on the archer, 2.2 vs 1.5 if the borders have expanded once. (If they've expanded twice, why don't you have axes?).

Also, they make minced meat out of archers in the field...

 

Well archers are 3, and I assume that quechas are 2 just like all other warriors. So against an archer inside a city, you aren't nearly as big of an underdog as you think if quecha's have a 100% bonus against archery units (I didn't know it was that high), especially if you have CR I.

A quecha would have a strength of: 2 (base) + 0.4 (CR I) + 2 (vs. archery) = 4.4

An archer would have a strength of 3 (base) + 1.5 (+50% when inside a city) + 0.6 (assume 40% city defense for a single border expansion of the city) + 0.75 (assuming it's fortified) = 5.85.

So yeah, you are an underdog in this scenario, but not nearly the underdog you described. (Actually, I don't understand where you got the 0.9 from.) Two quechas should be able to take out a single archer.

Now, on the open field, you're completely right. (Although honestly, why would you make archer units for the open field? With the +50% city defense they are obviously defensive units, with the possible exception of the skimisher and his 2 first strikes.)

Anyway, the quecha loses it's +0.4 for city attack, but it's still at a stregth of 4.0. The archer, however, loses it's inside a city bonus, the city's defensive bonus, and it's fortification bonus, so the archer's strength is just its base of 3.0.

 

Inca is aggressive, so the Quecha gets Combat I free. Second, One border expansion only gives 20%, not 40. That means CR I Quecha versus CG I Archer works out to:

2 + 0.2 + 0.4 + 2.0 = 4.6

3 + 1.5 + 0.6 + 0.6 = 5.1

Mind you Quechas are 40% of the cost of archers, so you will get the numbers...

After the first rush, you'll have some CR II ones if you get s second rush in. One game I played on a ring map, size small, 18 civs, I got three civs with Quecha rushes before I had my copper hooked up...

 

OK, I get the math on the quechas, but I still don't see how you came up with 5.1 for the archers. (For starters the numbers you listed add up to 5.7.) Why are there two separate 0.6? And why isn't there a 0.75 fortification bonus?

The 3 is the base.
The 1.5 is the inside a city bonus.
One of the 0.6 values is CG I.
Then I'd still add 0.75 for the fortification bonus.
And I'd still add at least 0.2 for the first border expansion.

That's 6.05 for an archer with CG I, and 5.45 for an archer without CG I.

 

I did forget the 5 turns fortified bonus. You are right there.

My current challenge is Freidreich of the Germans. I keep drawing one of more neighbours that will be jerks...

I'm trying to figure out warfare with non Aggressive leaders and Specialist economies...

 

Actually, playing with non-aggressive leaders isn't nearly as hard as you think. Although you miss out on the free Combat I bonus, you're getting something else instead. I'm not sure, but I think that Frederick is both philosophical and cultural. That means you'll get better defensive bonuses on your cities and will be able to make cheap libraries and universities.

As far as the specialist economies go, you'd want them quickly anyway. After my base necessities are met, I almost always will go directly for economics, as free market is the absolute bomb compared to anything that you've had available up to that point. That's one thing that hasn't changed in the entire Civ series. The civ with the most money usually wins, because the most money means you can donate more to research and luxuries (culture in Civ4) and you have a happier and more technologically advanced civ than everyone else.

 

I got my mitts on the Warlords expansion on Tuesday. I've reached teh conclusion that Tokugawa is going to be brutal now. He is still aggressive, but he is now protective, which means his Archery and Gunpowder units get free CG I and Drill 1. I can see sending Musketmen with Combat I, CG III and Drill I to defend my newly conquered cities. And send one of them with Medic II just to keep my other defenders in one piece. I have an archer with 10 exp in one of my cities. CG III and Drill II is truly sweet.