Combat Thief or Stalker?

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@Chev: When you think of a thief, does a dual-weilding pirate flash into your mind or a cloak-n-dagger assassin with daggers backstabbing his target flash into your mind?

That was what I meant when I said that there was no point in having a thief who cannot backstab...as that is the defining characteristic of thieves. Like the Big Macs at McDonalds.

 

For backstabbing I would advise a F/T, because of the lower Thaco. Thiefs have terrible Thaco, especially in the beginning, don't forget that. Your high multiplier is of no use if you can't hit the target.
And a F/M/T can be very fun too, with addtional protections.
And try to have high Str!

 

Thief THAC0 is poor, but at L20+ it is 10. You also get +4 (i think) for hiding in shadows, plus you would have a decent weapon with + to hit, so you should be okay. Especially as most of the people you want to backstab would be mages and they wouldn't have that low a THAC0 anyway.

F/T is very good though. Probably the best choice for a backstabber. For the same XP, wouldn't a Stalker have a better THAC0?

 

Slightly better. Here's the breakdown (note that the THAC0's are not taking into account that you have proficiencies, and probably a magic weapon.

1 million XP:
F/T level = 10/12 R level = 11
F/T THACO = 11 R THAC0 = 10

2 million XP:
F/T level = 12/14 R level = 14
F/T THAC0 = 9 R THAC0 = 7

3 million XP:
F/T level = 14/16 R level = 18
F/T THAC0 = 7 R THACO = 3

Note that this is the case of diminishing returns once you hit ToB. Fighters/Rangers/Paladins stop getting their bonus 1 to THAC0 upon leveling once they hit level 20. So in ToB, a F/T will "catch up" to the Ranger's THAC0.

The absolutely best backstabbing character is without a doubt a dual-classed Assassin-Fighter. Dualled at level 21 of course. Naturally, you can't work this in SoA.

 

Trouble is, you have to wait until really late in the game for the benefits, and is it always worth it? A multi-class F/T would need about 6,000,000XP to get the same THAC0 as a L20 Ranger who only need 3,600,000XP.

 

Now comes a silly question , how do i backstab?
I know it has something to do with "getting behind your enemies" and "stealth", but how do i do it?

 

Go into stealth mode (or use invisibility). Sneak up physically behind the enemy. Then, make an attack. You should then backstab and leave the shadows. Oh yeah, then run!

 

A small correction:
Fighter THAC0 improves until it reaches 0 at level 21 (At level 1 THAC0 is 20 and then it drops by one each level).

Bard wrote:

True, but do you really need a THAC0 that good?

Let's look at 3.6M xp which Bard (sort of) suggested. We'd have a Fig-15/Thi-18 vs a Ran-20.
Base THAC0 is Fig/Thi 6 and Ran 1.
Both will have a Girdle of Giant Strength giving them at least +3 To Hit.
Both will have at least a +3 weapon giving yet another +3 To Hit.
Weapon Specialization (Specialized) gives another +1 To Hit.
Backstabbing finally adds +4 To Hit.

We end up with this:
Fig/Thi: THAC0 -5
Ran: THAC0 -10

What this means is that this Fig/Thi (unless rolling a Critical Miss) always succeeds with his backstab against AC-7 or worse.
How many opponents have an armor class this low?

As Aldeth tFI showed, the lower the level at which we compare them, the less the difference in base THAC0 between the Fig/Thi and the Ranger.

There is no reason to doubt the capability of a Fig/Thi, but what might be cause for concern is the backstab potential of a single class thief or multiclass Thi/Mag because the base THAC0 of such a character will be quite bad.

However, assuming proper equipment (giant strength, nice weapon) even a Thi/Mag is a dependable backstabber.

 

Well, thanks Bard, now i finally know how to do it, and it is quite cool too, does it also work when you are already in fight, and the thief has been spotted by the enemy?

 

No. Unless, you use an invisibility ring, potion or spell of course. I believe there is a shortsword you can get that has a % chance of casting invisibility when attacking.

 

That's actually the Dagger of the Star, IIRC. You grab it from the Demilich in Watcher's Keep and upgrade it with 5 star sapphires.

 

Author Topic: Combat Thief or Stalker?
Bard

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I was looking at creating a combat thief, for sneaking and backstabbing. Not too worried about traps and locks.

The choices are
1. Thief
2. Assassin
3. Bounty Hunter
4. Fighter/Thief
5. Stalker

I have left out Swashbucklers as they cant backstab.

well hers what i think,

thief/MAGE spell Improved Invisablitie, i did this threw out all of iwd2 works wonders

 

Thief/Mage is very good and I have used them before, but was never convinced about their combat effectiveness (poor THAC0, hitpoints and AC). However, the spells do help a lot and it is worth considering.

 

I have a solo assassin/fighter dual class at the 8 million xp cap just before entering Suldanesselar. So I can have a mega backstabber all through TOB. I think that now I get the rest of the party since I have my ubercharacter.

 

well ... i've been away from BG2 for too long now and fancy playing as a combat thief again

there are a lot of new members around and people have played through the game a lot more since i originally created this thread ... so has anyone got any new views/thought about what sort of combat thief would be best?

 

What did you end up playing last time? Personally I think the fighter/thief is very powerful and versatile, but from a roleplaying perspective an assassins are the most fun to play. I'm currently playing an elf/assasin and half-orc/barbarian duo, both with int and wis under 10. Fun!

 

i did start to play a mage/thief, but got side-tracked by diablo2

i thought i might try a bountyhunter as they look like fun and although yoshimo is a cool thief, he doesnt stay around for too long

 

A stalker's backstab will actually reach x5, with baldurdash his thaco will be better that a f/t, he can cast haste and nondetection. In SoA he's the best choice for and probably in Tob as well if all you want is someone who can backstab really well with a dependable thac0. He doesn't get assassination but that's only selectable once any way. All around, though, a fighter/thief is more dangerous because he gets traps and UAI so it's really a matter of what you intend to use the stalker for.

 

fighter/thief, mage/thielf etc gets multiple "assasinations"

 

When considering the Mage/Thief Multiclass (or a Thief->Mage Dual Class) you might want to make getting the spell Tensor's Transformation a high priority. It will give you a THAC0 equal to that of a fighter the same level as your mage level. You can't cast spells while it's up, but if you buff before casting it, and have some wands or other items ready to go, you can do some damage. This works really nice with Improved Invis or Mislead combined with Spell Immunity: Divination.