Congress Resolution... To War!

Remove all ads!

BOC, after the Arabs conquered Constantinople they created a huge empire that dominated that part of the globe. They had an actual culture, well-respected libraries and places of learning (I don't know that you'd call them colleges as such), and a host of technological accomplishments. I'm not just talking about big buildings.

Yes, there have been good examples of stable democracies among the poor countries in Africa. Senegal springs to mind. But my point is better addressed by the things we see contributed to the world from African nations: there we do see some vibrant, healthy cultures alongside the destitute nations. I can't point to notable scholarly achievements on the par of the old Arab empires, however.

 

Shralp - You have to give a little credit to the Arab world. Our number system is based on arabic, and the rediscovery of numerous ancient greek and roman texts by arabic scholars basically ended the "Dark Ages" and brought about the Renaissance revival in Europe.

 

You got it Bel, if not for the Arabic scholar Al Farabi, we probably would not have any Aristotle floating around today...

 

Heh. Bel, that's why I added my little "in the last 50 years" disclaimer.

Although I strongly contest the idea that Arabs had much to do with the end of the Dark Ages... or that the Dark Ages were all that dark. The monks who stockpiled books and then opened schools across Europe deserve a good bit of the credit.

 

Shralp
You are wrong. Constantinople was conquered by Turks in 1453 AC. The Arabs besieged Constantinople several times (669 AC, 674 AC, 717 AC) but they never managed to conquer it. The Arabs conquered Persia, North Africa, Southern Spain and some byzantine provinces in Minor Asia and Aegean Sea which were retaken by Byzantines in later years. I agree with you that arabs developed a great culture but their culture had nothing to do with the byzantine culture.It was far advanced than byzantine culture in many things. Byzantines, because of the theocratic nature of their state, have never developed a significant culture and therefore they have never created the wonders that you say.

[ October 28, 2002, 22:26: Message edited by: BOC ]

 

Shralp - I missed the half-century reference the first time around...

But - the middle east has jumped light years ahead in the creation of fanatical terrorists to foment anarchy and chaos! Give credit where credit is due!

 

Bel, I know that was tongue in cheek, but since I do think there may be a tendency by some to think Islam fosters terrorism I'll just assert the position that that is not so. (and I know you said Middle East not Muslim but to many they are inextricably twined.)

I think the reason for terrorism is usually soci-economic. While the Middle East is sitting on huge oil reserves, the overwhelming majority of that wealth has not resulted in the type of filtered down benefit to the populace one might hope.

There are many, many types of terrorist groups and the one common component seems to be they are usually born out of poor socio-economic situations. There are a ton of Christian terrorist groups. And Hindu. And Buddhist. And... Just think of all the Christian terrorists in Central and South America.

Here is a little list, not all the groups may fit neatly into the square hole, but it is a start.

http://fas.org/irp/world/para/

If Turandil reads this, notice all the communist terrorists?

 

Quote:
"The monks who stockpiled books and then opened schools across Europe deserve a good bit of the credit."

Shralp, the monks you are referring to really did not do that much until the later middle ages - AFTER the influences of the Arab teachers and philosophers were felt in Europe. Contrary to popular belief, monks were not really all that educated until the Scholastic movement started in the later middle ages - many of them could not even read, so I think you are giving credit to the wrong people. Pick a new history book.

 

Heh. BOC, unless I'm mistaken Constaninople has indeed fallen. They call it Instanbul now.

Falstaff, behave yourself. Be polite. Atta boy.

 

Yes Shralp, it has fallen and it is called Istanbul now (here we call it still Constantinople),I have already written this. What I'm trying to say to you is that it was conquered by the Turks not by the Arabs.

 

Ah. I suppose by "Arabs" I used the wrong word for the group I was thinking of. Perhaps I should have stuck with "Muslims," but I was trying to avoid (further) stigmatizing the religion.

 

Sorry Shralp, sometimes I get a little excited - nothing personal!

 

Lets have a show of hands. Who cares about who is leading Iraq?

 

Turks are muslims but this is the only common thing they have with Arabs. They have nothing common with arabs in culture or politics. I think it is indicative the fact that they are the only islamic country of the area, which has good relations with Israel.

 

NP, Falstaff.

Truth be told, BOC, a good bit of the people over there aren't Arabs. Depending upon whom you ask, you'll hear that Afghanis, Pakistanis, and even Egyptians are not Arabs.

I think anthropologists would agree about the first two groups.