Could you live alone?

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Eze, time changes a lot of things, especially your views on the world. I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years you're digging this topic back up and posting something quite different. Trust me, I just know these things .

 

Vermillion is right, 6 years ago I was a selfish a**hole who thought the world floated around him.. Now I´m non-selfish a**hole who thinks he floats around the world

(I know "floating" is not the right word, so once again I´m pretty good living up to my "king-of-engrish" title)

 

Yeah.

Ezellohar, Life has a way of finding you.

No matter how talented a sneak you are.

But in the end, you're going to HAVE to take a risk for it to work. And it just so happens, you might very well deem that risk to be acceptable.

That is called Love. I spell it with a capital "L" because it different enough to catch your attention, when it happens.

Time.

Just give it some time.

 

Well I don't believe in love. I guess I haven't done that for, well, long. Just realised that I didn't want to believe in the facts I knew, until some time back.

As for living without relationships, of course it's perfectly possible if forced to it. But I've no intention to do that, as relationships are the salt and sugar of life. So if you mean being able to live through life with no life-long companion or a loved one, then I say yes, definitely. If you mean living alone in a cellar with no social relationships with any human, or no "relationships" (as in, a girlfriend some part of the time) at all, then it would be no. I'd prefer to be alone, yes, but I'm a human afterall and there's no denying that I need the company of others.

Edit: And Eze, it seems to me like you're not such a selfish guy afterall. Since you do have the courage and will to come and speak to us about it. If you're able to miss this myth called love, then you are, to at least some extent, able to give and receive it as well. The shallow relationships you might see all around you have nothing to do with even the realistic concept of love, theyre only shallow relationships. They form, break and form again, all the time. No use to be envious of those.

Instead of what others have said, I will not give you hope that will probably prove to be false. There is no such thing as "give it time, after a few years you'll be spending a nice life with a nice loved one". That doesn't happen. Depending on your age, of course. Since a 15 year old can hardly complain about such things (not that I'm saying you're 15) with any real background information of his own role in life, yet. "Some day, you'll find a true love", is the same false hope as "some day, you'll have your studies done and be working in a good position" and "some day, it'll all be better". There is never that some day. Luck affects all things, of course, but if you're somewhere between 20-30 years old, you know what your life is very probably going to be. Clinging to false hopes will make bearing it easier, but won't help you in the end. Either do something about it, or accept your role in life. To live in the dreamwold of a stupid child isn't going to get you anywhere. Fact is, some people are not meant to take the easy way.

[ January 17, 2003, 09:53: Message edited by: Foradasthar ]

 

I think it is possible to live without love. I did for awhile. I think that you almost have to, or rather accept the fact that you could live without love before you can live with love. Ok, maybe that didn't make sense.
My wife and I both felt the same way about love. We had been through many relationships. Before we became more than friends, something happened inside us. We both had came to the realization that we don't have to be in a relationship or with somebody to be happy. If we went the rest of our lives without being truly in love that was ok. We could still be happy. Once I realized that, it was easier when I started dating her, to let myself fall in love.
If I had to, I could live without love. Would I want to? Not if I could help it. It is the greatest feeling in the whole world. To wake up next to that person and have her be the first thing I see, well there are no words to describe it.
To have that feeling that you want to spend eternity with someone, to know someone so well inside that you know just the right moment to bring her homemade chocolate ice cream. How could you want to live without that?

 

I'm in agreement with ejsmith. Love has a habit of slapping you in the face when you least expect it. I've had a number of girlfriends but didn't fall in love for the first time until I was almost 22!

*After putting on my Nostrodamus hat* I can see into the future... (woo-woo) I see Eze (like all teenagers) being less selfish as she tumbles out of puberty... (woo-woo) her falling in love... (woo-woo)... continuing to have homoerotic fantasies and becoming addicted to bishojo manga... (woo-woo)!

To answer the question... I believe it depends on your past experiences. If you've never loved it should be possible to continue living alone and without love. However, if you've ever tasted what it feels like to be in love you'll know that whenever you get some time to yourself to think you'll miss that feeling of innate happiness and contentness.

[ January 17, 2003, 11:37: Message edited by: the god ]

 

I am usually told that I'm broad-minded, able to accept multiple different views on different subjects. Not just my own side of it. But here.. well, here I can only laugh at the naiveté of people who claim they know a thing about this "love". People who are so drugged by their hormones and inability to think and look to the future. The sad thing is, after 10 years when probably 80% of you who speak of having found the one true love etc, will have their relationships broken.

You know what is really sad? The fact that those less than 10 years later, when your relationship breaks, you will find a new "loved one". That old one, which you're now speaking of, you will refer to as nothing but a girlfriend amongst all the others. That a person should do the same mistake over, and over, and over again. And never even realize how they are captured in their own imagination, in search of a childish dream that doesn't exist.

 

The god:You can be sure of most of them.

Foradasthar:I am a chick. And I don't miss love. I am 12, BTW. I think that some ppl can live without Love, even if they are not forced.

 

I think that the claim to be able to live without love is a foolish one. Times are changing, so are you.
You have a long way ahead - who knows if there's some love to find - and who knows, maybe you'll find it indispensable one day. Not that love isn't a thing of importance at the age of 12, but relax - considering the lifespan of the average european you have time.

 

@Foradasthar: Hormons are biology.

Anyway, not that people are happy then, but it is possible to live without love. *That* love, as the thread subject suggests. Not any love at all. But that's still possible. Nobody says easy, but technically love is not indispensible, no matter how life develops then. Consider those who vow chastity & celibacy, those who don't find their match etc. The latter have some occasional crushes or even physicals, but well that's not love.

 

Foradasthar, your post has been bugging me all morning. Are you the person who checked "50+" in the age poll? Usually it takes many years of cynicism, or a deep emotional hurt, to create such an attitude. Or have you just been reading too much Camus lately?

I'll agree with you that someone who is looking for a relationship as a way out of an undesirable situation is being stupid and childish. The best way to ensure your own happiness is to go out and MAKE it for yourself.

But once you've done that, what's next? I don't think it's childish at all to want to share your happiness with someone else, or to take pleasure in making someone else happy. More likely than not, the particular "someone" will be a person you've met in the ordinary course of your life and naturally grown close to. I'll agree with you that building a life around LOOKING for "someone" is a path that will ultimately lead nowhere.

So what if a few relationships fail along the way? If the participants grow apart as they grow up, why should they cling to something that no longer brings happiness? I had two serious relationships prior to meeting my husband, and what I learned about myself in the course (and ending) of them makes me the person I am today. Life is a saw-toothed curve.

You're probably right that "Every pot has its lid" is something Moms made up to comfort upset kids through their first break-ups. As I said to Eze before, be comfortable in yourself and your solitude, just don't go out of your way to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Stay aware of what and who is going on around you, and you may get a pleasant surprise. Then again, you may not - but is that a good reason to close your eyes?

 

Foradasthar: Just because so many people mistake love for lust or infatuation or friendship or whatever does not mean there's no such thing as love. What about the relationships that haven't ended after ten years? Or twenty? Or fifty? I can tell you without a doubt that my parents are still in love with each other after twenty-five -- probably even more then when they got married. If that's not true love, I don't know what is -- and I doubt you do either. I don't mean this offensively, but just because you can't find it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Scarampella: I agree that under difficult circumstances, humans can live without love. However, I don't agree it's healthy. Personally, I thought "Tom Hanks" was a nut case, talking to his volleyball; although that was just fiction. Anyway, others have pointed out the ill effects of living without love.

Eze, give it at least twelve more years before you give up on love. You've only just begun....

 

Mmmm... maybe once I could have lived without it, but not anymore. I firmly believe that it's the one thing that gives life meaning - sharing it with someone else.

Plus, if it didn't exist, I would have nothing to live for.

 

Doesn't sound nice, but he's perfectly right that you see relationships differently before and after. When phenyloethyloamine strikes your mind, you perception clouds over. It's like joyous revelling followed by hangover the very next day. Then either you realise that that wasn't it or disilussion comes together with disappointment. Your dreamt one for example turns out to be a liar, a carefree egotic, a moral relativist or building his/her feeling of self-greatness at your expense. Mostly you also realise that the whole issue hardly had anything to do with love.

According to statistics you'll marry someone someday anyway, so it gives the impression that anyone finds his/her match finally. Rubbish. Logical, arithmetical, philosophical, biological rubbish. The sooner you learn this the better. He's learnt that probably early, so that's good for him. The way he learnt certainly wasn't a merry-go-round, but that's the price you pay.

[ January 18, 2003, 03:04: Message edited by: chevalier des Trois-Tours ]

 

ethyl.

And I don't do drugs.

Other than that, there's some mean girls out there, and it sounds like they've gotten to Foradasthar.

I'd tell you I have to kill them all, but since I'm not female, it would even be slightly funny.

I'll have to save that comment for the broken-hearted female D&D'ers, when they show up...

 

I would probably find it easy to live alone, I am a bit of a loner anyway. maybe when I'm older and had a boyfriend or something I'll decide.

 

chevalier des Trois-Tours:

I see you got my point. Or should I say, you knew what I was talking about. Merely explained it in a more logical way.

But really, if you think I'm some 16-year old mid-way to puberty kid who's just sad and envious for never getting any, you're wrong. Just as wrong as you would be assuming I was a 50-years old bitter and cynical pops with serious traumatic emotional experiences in the past.

I've had my few crushes that ended up on wall with the speed of 100km/h of course. Who hasn't? I've also had better experiences that haven't really ended in a sad way, at least in the traditional sense. Really my deduction of this is merely an obvious thing that follows from trying to decipher things logically by following the lives of others and your own.

Indeed, not many couples end up spending over 10 years with each other. Many who do, do it out of some custom or other form of feeling of "commitment" or suchlike. Very rarely, do those who stay together until the end do it out of feeling constant affection to each other. I'm not talking about the endorfins you get when you fall for someone the first time, but the constant feeling of trust and affection. So yes, these cases do exist. But it doesn't mean that "love", would still exist. You know why?

In order to be any love, love would have to be a proven, attainable thing that you know when you have it. Or feel it. But since it is a fact that even after spending 20 years together, it is still practically just as likely for relationships to suddenly end for the betrayal of another, as before. Simplified: Not only is the definition of love a hard thing to come by(how it connects to merely boosting your own self-esteem for example). Also, you can never prove that it exists. For if love is eternal, then it's supposed to last until the end. Yet as relationships broke all the time in all stages of life, you can never, ever know until the end comes. What this means is that no matter how completely certain you are that this is love what you're feeling, you just don't know.

That might get on the philosophical, not practical side a bit too much. Point, however, is that I cannot ever trust any person fully and completely. That does not happen. If I cannot trust any woman completely, with all of my life and secrets, all of my emotional barriers layed down, all of them. Then how can I love her? My idea of love is the complete neverending happiness where both persons live for their own co-existence. Yet, this stage is a passing thing. If "love" is something that exists for around 2 weeks (which actually was the time that the greatest amount of hormones and endorfin flows in your body, according to some research IIRC), then why would it deserve being called love?

Therefore it is a proven fact that there can only be different stages of affection. And each of the stages of this affection are quite vulnerable to outside interferences, depending on the nature of the interference, the level of the affection on either side, and the basic nature, information, and state of mind of the individuals that feel this affection. Given enough time and chance, the affection will ALWAYS break. At some point. As proven by the many people living here, it usually takes from a few months to a couple of years.

So. After this novel, I hope you understand what I mean. To think that you can ever logically claim that this is the person you will live for the rest of your life with. This is the person you will always love. Is stupid and naive. For any number of little things put together in the right order, will easily change it all. That's why I believe in the only thing that can be. That is, affection. If I "fall" for someone, I feel affected. I will pursue the relationship, enjoying my time, but without any sense of cynicism I will still always know that it cannot last. It is only a matter of time before it will end. But that is the way of things. When it does end, I will make my best to make the end as easy on myself and the woman I was with. Afterwards, I will take the necessary time that is required for any human to recover, assuming the break was not an easy one. Whereafter I will hold a break, or move on to a new relationship.

Only that is realistic, and accepting it will invariably make your life a lot easier. Truth, usually hurts, even I have my times when I would not want to believe in that. But facts, and experiences, speak for themselves.

 

You have then cast more light on your point.

No, I did not think you were 16 or something. What you are speaking of is not achievable for so young people. However I wasn't much older when enlightment started filling my skull, but well... one shouldn't extend exceptions.

It takes some life to realise logic does not apply here. Then it takes some more to realise that it actually does apply. Of course as long as the reasoning is correct. Basing on this precious knowledge, people who claim they have found the love of their life are all but logical. It is still possible they are right even basing as they are on false assumptions, but the probability of such is close to null.

Only if one is indeed wise and posesses vast knowledge of world and of human affairs and nature as well as a creditable intuition, (s)he could then say with some margin of error that a certain person is likely to be the one. It is however related to matching, not to love. The insight you need to tell love from affection and affection from lust is beyond the strong majority of people. In my very special in those terms case I would sort of consciously believe such feeling if I had one, with due respect to my cynicism and bitterness preserved. As for now I can instantly tell which person is *not* the one. All I have had cruches on recently belong here. Now I'm working on trusting my intuition more.

Last but not least, happiness. Depends on the point of view. Maybe you will call it sado-masochistic, but my understanding of love does not include happisness in most common sense if at all. A happy life together is not prerequisite. Happiness may (and may not) be derived from love itself. Again, satisfaction (philosophical sense)without happiness is what I would name here. Metaphorically, that would idem per idem be happiness without happiness. There are far more important things values than being happy. Again, they are themselves rewards.

 

Love may exist, but it is not for everybody.

Anyway, Eze, you're only 12. Start getting worried when you're my age and still like that.

Or not.

 

Yes, well I should've been more precise with my words. I certainly wasn't speaking to you when I said that assuming I'm a 16-yearold envious kid would be wrong. All of what I said after the first paragraph was pointed to the general audience here that seemed to think of me as a cynical, bitter and overcritical individual.