Depression

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I can agree with pretty much everyone. That's because there's a lot you (and thus we) do not know. She could be playing hard-to-get and is being manipulative. I've known women who do that kind of thing. She could be totally freaked out and not sure how to respond (I've done that when I've gone farther with a guy than I expected, and realized I wasn't ready to do it again, but feared that the guy would expect me to be fine with it now that I'd done it once -- I was young and naive, and it was just a kiss, but . . .) There could be another man in the picture that she feels she needs to deal with first (either decide to be with him, not you, or decide to dump him for you) and wants to do it alone. She could be acting like the "typical man" (I put it in quotation marks since 1) I know not all men do this and 2) I have known plenty of women who do) and just wanted a one-night stand. Heck, she could be bisexual and didn't realize she did still like men until you came around (unlikely, but . . .)

Without more input from her (which she seems to be withholding at the moment), there's no real way to figure out what her motivations are. So, you're going to have to go with your gut, I think.

Oh, and women are told exactly the same thing Gaear said to do: to wait for the other person, because then you'll look more desirable and not clingy. Problem is, if both people take that advice, nothing happens. I think a couple of friendly approaches (which you may have already made) is sufficient. I agree that probably sending flowers or other gifts might make her more freaked out (if she's freaked out) or think you're needy (if she just wanted a one-night-stand), but ignoring her could give her the impression that you aren't interested. And if she's only slightly interested, she may take it as a sign to go elsewhere.

Finally, though, you need to think about yourself. What do YOU want and need right now? Maybe trying to turn this into a relationship is not what you want/need, but maybe it is. Either way, consider that it's going to create a lot of complications as well as companionship. Considering your current situation, you want to really consider your own needs and wants and make sure not to jump into OR avoid something for the wrong reasons. You need to do what's truly right for you, whatever that might be.

 

I don't know what different people around here are used to but in some crowds a small gift is entirely appropriate (and even expected) after an enjoyable evening (not necessarily having done the nasty). This just shows that you're willing to do something nice with no expectation of getting any(thing) in return.

Flowers ... nice ... roses ... too far. Since she's a geeky one, a lifetime subscription to SP might be in order. Or the Hulk fists.

 

Barmy, everybody else here has covered pretty much everything I could have wanted to say. I'm just very impressed you're not bottling this up any more, I think that's the most powerful step you can take. It's been said here before, but things will improve. There will be days when you feel better, and days when you feel worse, and during the latter you just need to remember the former. Exercise is a fantastic cure for mental problems. I'm sure it's clear from the responses here, but please don't ever think you're unable to spill your problems, to your friends, family or even just on this site. Good luck to you.

 

Thanks for the kind words people, it really does help. Thank you.

 

I don't know that it would be interpreted that way. Specifically because you're giving the gift (or at the least it could be construed as this being the reason) because you've already got some(thing). The clear implication being that's it's a wham bam thank you ma'am gift.

Awesome

 

That's interesting. I was thinking that if it was made *very* clear that it was a "thank you for a good time" gift, it might be okay. It's hard to say, especially since I tend to be skittish. My first thought would be that it was an attempt to pressure me into more. Especially if I was in a place where I felt I had gone further than I had intended and wasn't sure how I felt about that, it might make things worse rather than better, but only from a pressure standpoint (note: if I did go farther than I expected, I wouldn't blame the man, but it would still make me uncomfortable around him, particularly about what he might want in the future). If I knew that nothing more was necessarily expected, I'd feel less pressured and more relieved, and might actually enjoy the gift. It never occurred to me to think of it as a wham bam thank you ma'am gift, but you're right, some might. Very interesting.

 

Exactly - to me, that meaning would be implicit in giving the gift in the first place. If you had a great evening, it's practically assumed that you might want to have another such evening in the future. So unless both people are on the same page of it being a one-night deal, or both feel that there's no pressure to do so again, then such a gift can be (and often will be) construed in any number of ways, not all of which would have been intended by the gift-giver.

 

Seems like it would be safe for non-sexual encounters though, wherein the message is simply "I enjoyed your company and I'd like to see you again."

Despite the similarities, I think the contexts for the 'strategies' are quite different for men and women. When women use it (as near as I can gather anyway, lol), they are hoping for something to blossom with somebody when searching for a man, right? In other words, something potentially serious? After all, you generally don't have to try very hard to get us guys to just sleep with you if that's all you want. But in the context I recommended it for Barmy, it's just for the guy to get the girl back in the sack, not for looking for a soul-mate. It usually applies to guys who have either been dumped and are floundering, or who like Barmy are nonplussed about some short-term situation that has turned weird. Our impulses always tell us to "do something! It's all falling apart!," but "doing something" is the last thing the girl wants from you. If on the other hand you appear all calm and unaffected in the face of a little upheaval, that will only up your status and she may re-weigh her decision to get rid of you. Flowers - no, calls - no, acting weird and obsessive and needy - no. Being generally agreeable but not overly available if she contacts you - yes. Also don't answer every time she calls.

Good: [she calls] "Hey baby, I was thinking about you dumping me the other day ... no big deal, girl, I understand you need [x/y/z]. Ha-ha, don't worry, I'll be fine. The important thing is you have to take care of yourself. Give me a call if you want, I'm around but I'm going to Italy next week to work on my startup company (e.g. my life is going somewhere) so I might not answer."

Bad: [you call and she doesn't answer] "Hey baby, it's me again, I know I just called 17 minutes ago but I just wanted you to know that I feel like I'm dying without you and I don't understand why you can't see that. I know you still love me, right? I mean even though you dumped me I feel we've got this connection that can never be severed. Okay, so think about that and get back to me. I've got the phone right next to me here - in fact I'm looking at it right now - so I will probably answer on the first ring, second at the latest. I may go to the restroom in about 45 minutes so I will check messages when I get back. No wait, I will just take the phone with me. Hello? Okay baby, I guess that's all for now ... I'll call you back in a few to see if you got this. Oh, also I got you a present."

 

Yeah, I agree. If the girl has dumped the guy, strategy #1 is definitely the way to go.

Barmy's situation is a little different, though: we don't know WHAT she's thinking. So why would he do #1 (in which he says she dumped him)? And #2 is obviously stupid for either gender.

I think a middle way between ignoring/complete indifference and neediness/obsessiveness is best:

Indifference:
Girl calls, guy says, "Oh. I wasn't really expecting you to call. I'm really excited about (something else in his life)."

Result: Girl gives up -- obviously, he is no longer interested.

Neediness/Obsessiveness:
Variation of #2 above, but without mentioning dumping.

Result: Girl is getting sick and tired of this guy.

Middle way:
Girl calls, guy answers: "Oh, nice to hear from you. I had a really nice time the other night." They can then potentially discuss meeting again.

Obviously, the DON'T in this situation is "Oh, good. I've been hoping you would call. In fact, I've been sitting by my phone all day just in case. I even gave up (some favorite activity) because I couldn't bear the thought of possibly missing your call."
(Note: this is bad for girls, too).

OR

Guy calls (just the once, leaving a message): "I wanted to let you know I had a good time the other night (possibly adding): Would you be interested in meeting again? If so, feel free to reach me at (give number). Have a great day" (hang up and don't call again).

I agree that sounding agreeable and pleasant but not overly attached is the best tone of voice . . . again, for both men and women. To be honest, if I got the one message, and THEN didn't hear from him for awhile, I'd be a lot more likely to call back and get things started than if he didn't call at all. After all, guys are fairly notorious for not calling when they say they will, and it's usually an indication that they're not interested. So, if a guy didn't call at all, I'd chalk it up as a loss. Same if I called and he sounded, well, completely uninterested in me.

 

#2 was mainly for entertainment purposes , but it should be noted that stupidity is not so easily avoided when you're in the throes of heartache.

I like your alternative versions btw.

But, do strategies even really work in the long run? I mean, before too long either party is probably going to know what the other's really about, so playing a role should not be the defining element of a relationship. For example, even if Needy Guy is able to trick his ex or the one night stand into thinking that he is Mr. Cool for a while, the reality will eventually come to light when she sees that he's always #1 on her Facebook friends list, and the alarms will go off again. Probably better to just be who you are, for better or worse.

 

Wow, this sidebar is taking a life of its own...

 

Whoa!

On behalf of Barmy (and supposedly many others), it's really nice to know that SP's often tongue-in-cheek mentality is just for the comedy effect. I was half-expecting this thread to turn into a horrible mess after a few posts, but it didn't. Kudos to everyone involved.

And Barmy: Feel the confidence in you. You're the one who showed some serious brazen balls by bringing up the issue that so many would rather keep hidden. Even more so on an internet forum, for crying out loud. That's by far the most important step on your way of MAKING it better for yourself for the future. "It's not necessarily how you have it that matters, but how you take it."

 

Back to the original topic at hand, I just want to say that the elephant in the room's only been mentioned once.

Let me start by saying that a couple of years ago I had a full-blown mental breakdown. My life was in shambles, I was on a pittance of an income, my love-life was a mess, everything was wrong, and something (I can't even remember what anymore) tipped me over the edge. I sought medical help and was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and suicidal ideation.

At the time I didn't take it seriously, and though I took my tablets like a good boy for a while, I eventually stopped and hid from my problems for 2 more years before I finally bit the bullet and accepted the fact that I just wasn't going anywhere without the help of some kind of medication.

Anti-depressants saved my life. I know there's a huge amount of controversy and the statement "They don't solve your problems they just bury them" is prevalent amidst that controversy, but for my part they allowed me the impartiality to face the problems and see them for what they are. Now I can't say my life is perfect (far from it) but I can handle it now. I can look at my problems and see the solutions rather than just obsessing over the problems.

 

Good point, Urithand.

However, there is quite a difference in using the medication for what it was designed for - pulling someone buried down in hopelessness up just enough to be able to keep on working up from there - and shoving them down the throat on anyone feeling down for whatever, often unrelated reason.

It's no small task for an outside observer to tell when someone really would benefit from the medication, but it really isn't and shouldn't be the go-to solution to ALL problems, especially not without proper therapy and counseling to accompany it.

 

Absolutely. 100% agreed with you on that point. And as (I think it was Aldeth) pointed out earlier, there's a big difference between being depressed and suffering with clinical depression. It's a complicated puzzle.

 

I just wanted to poke my head in here with a quick update for anyone interested. I'm a lot better in my head these days. Not many changes in my life really, I just like to keep my living area a lot cleaner - I can't live in a mess anymore. I think perhaps I've just come to terms more with my situation and accepted things as they are. I don't know if that's a good thing, or bad, but there it is....

 

Well, it's good and bad in a way. Or it could be depending on where you go from here. Accepting that you are not in a position to make any immediate grand changes in your life is certainly a good thing. If you aren't in a position to make those changes, and you push forward anyway, you'll just get more frustrated and more depressed. Going off half cocked isn't going to get you anywhere. If you instead focus on long-term goals, that can be accomplished eventually - even if not immediately - that's also a good thing. However, that does require you to make plans on where you want to get. If you just get complacent and hope things come to you, you may find yourself back where you started - and that's bad.

 

From my experience, keeping your living area cleaner is huge, even if you haven't made any other changes.