Dex or Str

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@keldor – at the risk of flogging a dead horse, I made an opposite assumption from yours. I assumed that casey was following the forum description (from the front page), and meant his question to be related to BG2; otherwise, I assume he would have said he was speaking more theoretically or, better yet, posted the question in a different forum. And I forgot about Abomination’s post on missile weapons, or I would have attacked him, too (for the reason's you mentioned).

Anyway, I think we’re both right – me (and a lot of others) from a BG2-specific perspective, and you from a more general viewpoint.

‘nuff said.

 

What about the fighters being equipped with only a shield, longsword and plate mail isn't clear in the initial post. That is the equipment so there is no point telling the one with the higher dex would win with a bow since he doesn't have one. Since this is a confrontation based on BGII rules (hence the BGII forum as Splunge pointed out) this comes down to statistical number crunching which I did some posts before but nobody seemed to have read that one.

@ Splunge
In this case the thaco and AC don't compensate, there is a difference of 1 (=5%) in favor of the dex-based. But indeed this is offset by the higher damage (around 50%) of the str-based.

 

@Meatdog - I may be mistaken, but I think Dex 15 gives you -1 to AC, while 20 is -4, for a difference of 3. Str, on the other hand, gives no thac0 bonus at 15, and -3 at 20. So in both cases, the difference is 3.

I think.

 

In the fight detailed at the beginning of the thread, the STR fighter takes it, of course. But when I'm making my characters, I always opt for higher DEX. Why? It's cheap AC bonus, it's a great bonus for missile weapons, and it's not as easy to boost as strength (take the many strangth boosting spells and items -- for dex, there's two potions, one set of armor, and one weapon that boosts Dex) Plus, I prefer to have my Main character hang back and use Missile weapons (letting a main character go into melee is dumb, at least the way I play) If I want high STR I'm going to give it to a warrior who can get a rating over 18, not to a priest, rogue or wizard who can only get an 18 max.

 

Ok to Clairfy what all this is about.

Since I posted in this forum then yes, that would mean who would win under the BGII rules, anything else would be against the rules and off topic, so everyone that responded was correct. But in the case Keldor suggested, yes it's true that the combat system in BGII isn't entirely accurate but then what combat system is? I'd think in Keldors suggested case that the high dex fighter would have a better chance even in melee, since the other guy is incredibly strong but all that mass gives him a disadvantage to his speed, the weaker fighter however could probably dodge any melee attack in an almost casual manner, and then give the big guy a minor injury and get out before he can give a response, and repeat until he's worn down and eventually dead. I think a weaker fighter would probably fight better without any heavy armors anyway but that's just imo.

 

@ Splunge
You're right. This means my number crunching isn't exact. I'll go and rectify this immediately.

[EDIT: Done, the erronous post is corrected]

[ January 29, 2004, 13:12: Message edited by: Meatdog ]

 

Is it just me or is it wierd that the best way to hit someone fast is to be really strong...

It is one of the wierd points about D&D that a sprightly warrior is just as sprightly in a huge suit of plate mail, and armour doesn't actually reduce damage! In this case strength is clearly more important, but start the combat at 100 feet apart and the dex warrior would have an advantage with his bow...

 

Armour was designed to fight in, Swordaliser! It wouldn't be of use if wearing it made you less capable and less likely to survive. In other words, any warrior that wears armour that is so heavy he can't move about quickly is a fool.


Casey, I *don't* think that the D&D system of combat is unrealistic or lacking in any way. It covers combat as realistically as you want it to - many people just seem incapable of understanding its realism.
The only way D&D may be said to fail (in realism) is that it makes no specific mention of broken bones and severed limbs et al. but any good DM can include such details if he wants to, based on critical hits scored and good story-telling. For example, I might declare that a fighter finds out *after* a fight, that his arm has been broken, so that the concept of such occurances isn't swept aside as if they never occur. Another example might be that a killing blow in a fight is one that severs the monster's arm or leg, so that it collapses in defenseless agony to either die of shock and bloodloss or to be finished off at the player's leisure(!). Equally, I could have a PC killed in such a manner i.e. "Sorry Malkor, but as you try desperately to roll to the side, the orc chieftain slashes his scimitar down viciously and you feel a terrible pain at the shoulder; your head is spinning and the hand that you've reflexively clasped over the wound tells you vaguely that you've lost your arm. In moments you lose consciouness..."

 

So you dare call medieval knights fools. Forget all that Hollywood nonsence, full plated warriors are incapable of moving fast or swift, they can't even mount a horse. They were lifted on their horses with some kind of crane system. This is why the 3rd edition is better in restricting the bonus from dexterity to AC if wearing heavy armors.

I'd say it's just you. If you are using a large, heavy weapon like a greatsword, dexterity will serve you nothing because of the large mass of the weapon. The only way you could wield it in a quick fashion is if you had alot of strength to counteract the slowness (don't know if this is the correct physical term for it in English) of the weapon.

On the other hand it is strange that strength is also used for the lighter weapons like rapiers and daggers. There dexterity should be the prime attribute, since strength won't serve you much because of the low weight of those weapons and hence it is more important to make very dexterous fighting moves with them.