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Keep in mind that the game is designed for playing a party of 6 without cheating, not for soloing.
If you have a balanced party of 5 and decide whom you add as the 6th character the gap between cleric and fighter isn't that big anymore.
Since you'll only reach level 16-17 it doesn't matter that the number of base attacks per round is capped at 4 which fighters reach at level 16. A cleric will never reach level 22 which is neccessary for getting the 4th attack.
While in a solo game a fighter can't buff up himself with spells like bull's strength or PfE like the cleric, in a party of 6 there'll be someone to buff him up with those spells.
In a normal party game the fighter is considerably better for tanking and dealing out direct damage for the first (the more difficult) half of the game, at least until level 8, and afterwards you need micromanagement to cast the self-buffs like holy power on the cleric.

[ August 11, 2007, 20:12: Message edited by: kmonster ]

 

Technically if they followed PnP 3rd edition rules BaB for any character goes up by 1 every even level and then all saves by 1 on odd levels(or vice versa) and never get more attacks then what there BaB would give up to Lvl 20. I don't really know how it works in IWD II but they have messed stuff like this up before so who knows.

 

You are confusing some things about PnP BAB and the save bonusses, it's exactly like implemented in IWD2. The only difference is that you still can get extra base attacks per round in IWD2 after level 20 (but only if you don't have 4 yet).
In a "normal" game this doesn't matter since you won't be able to reach level 20 anyway.

 

when you re soloing you level up very quick,for instance in bg my character started TOB at lvl 40
for what i can tell from your information as you ve put it the classes appear to be even more unblanced with 3e, clerics seem to be overpowered just like mages before them, while fighters lag once again, even more so without kits

 

In IWD2 your solo character won't level that fast as in BG2 because of the dynamic XP calculation. If your average party level is much higher than the challenge rating of the monster you face you won't get a single XP for killing it for example.
IWD2 is far more a party game than BG2, there are so many skills in the game a solo character can't handle.
IWD2 isn't that unbalanced as BG2 (no timestop + shapeshift mindflayer or mislead for example), but clerics and especially sorcerers are still far stronger than fighters at high levels.

If you want to solo a pure warrior without spellcasting you can do it. It just won't be as easy as in BG2.
Most damaging is a half-orc barbarian with 1 int and cha, good feats early on are dash,dodge,power attack, cleave, I'd only raise strength at level ups.
A deep gnome with similar stats would do less damage but have an easier time because of the defensive racial bonusses.
Drow also get MR, humans get an extra feat and extra skillpoints, shield dwarves aren't bad either.
A disadvantadge of such a low-int, low-cha barbarian is that you won't be able to get many good talking options in the dialogue-heavy prologue, even if you put all skill points into the intimidate skill it will take a long time until (cha penalty !) it is high enough and there will only be few intimidating dialogue options left then, diplomacy or bluff willl never be high enough to matter. Pumping up int-based skills doesn't make sense either, putting those points into stealth might help you more.

Personally I recommend playing a party of 6 the first time, the game was designed for it and I really liked having a party of six characters of whom everyone had a way of contributing something to the party the others couldn't do that good. Everyone did shine in his own way.

 

Good advice from Kmonster. I you really want to solo, start as a Rogue (they get extra skillpoints that way) take two rogue levels (for evasion which helps a lot when soloing) and the rest as fighter or barbarian. There are no kits in IWD2 but multiclassing can make up for this.

Barbarians are better versus enemy rogues but fighters get an incredible amount of feats (more than any other class and weapon specialization becomes possible at level 4).

If you play a barbarian you might want to keep him as pure as possible. If you want a fighter feel free to multiclass.

When soloing spells that stun or hold you often mean you'll have to reload. So don't dump WIS unless you have a way to increase your saves (for instance will for hold person and reflex for chromatic orb).

If you want a pure Fighter or Barbarian play a Drow (they get MR without losing STR and the extra ability points will help getting a high STR and CON without having to dump other stats).

Drow and Deep Gnomes's magic resistance gets better as they level up so don't expect a first level character to resist magic so often.

If you want a multiclassed fighter take a human, a dwarf or a half elf. Dwarves can start with a very high CON (always good when soloing), humans get more skillpoints and an extra feat (nice), half elves only get some minor bonuses but the resistance to sleep might save your character's hide and make it a bit easier at the beginning.

A multiclassed fighter starting as a Rogue (2 levels for evasion a very useful feat) with a Barbarian level (for Rage) and perhaps one level of ranger (if you went for a high DEX build and want to take advantage of free ambidexterity and dual wielding while wearing light armours) wouldn't be a waste for a fighter.

Dash can be useful but I'd pick Dodge and Luck of Heroes first. Then I'd take the feats that boost the will saves. After that useful feats include power attack, rapid shot and expertise (a good reason not to dump INT although expertise doesn't stack with power attack). When soloing having someone casting hold person or chromatic orb on your only character almost always mean game over if your character fails his save.

[ August 12, 2007, 12:08: Message edited by: Caradhras ]

 

Heroic inspiration is also a great feat to take. If you have a race with magic resistance you don't need save bonusses that much since MR will block nearly spells before you have to make the save.

 

At higher levels yes. At lower levels it's another matter. A drow low on will saves will probably get held a few times before completing the horde fortress.

Being unlucky is one thing, reloading because your character failed a save and got beaten to death by two goblins and an orc is another.

Since heroic inspiration boost the saves as well it's a good idea to pick it. What I don't like about this feat though is that you have to be in pretty bad shape for it to work.

 

Racial spell resistance works the following way:
If your deep gnome or drow has the same level as the caster he has 50 percent chance to be unaffected. The chance increases by 5 percent with each additional level difference (and each point of sr you get from other sources).

Even in a party game enemy casters are lower level than your charcter, a solo character will level even faster. Will saves come into play when the MR fails an additional raise by 1 will raise the save chances by only 5 percent only in this case.
76.2 instead of 75 percent (later rather 100 instead of 100) chance to succeed when targeted with a hold spell early isn't as useful as physical stats or combat-enhhancing feats.

 

I get your point but the 5% can make a huge difference between reloading and not reloading. I soloed many times the beginning of the game and my drows often ended up held at the horde fortress which was a real pain. I hate reloading a game because my character wasn't lucky on one roll. The saves increasing feats add up and if you invest a few feats in them you will see the difference. It's especially true for fighters who can safely spare a few feats to increase their chances.

Orc shamans and goblin sorcerers seem to love casting hold person when you make your way to the Shaengarne Bridge. When you have an entire party you can always have one or two shooters take the casters out but when soloing shifting to ranged attacks make you vulnerable in melee (if you're not playing a spellcaster you can't use spells to that effect). Rushing toward the spellcasters is not always possible either.

Anyway if you could skip these feats when soloing a drow or a deep gnome (and get ready for a few reloads along the way) with a human (or any race without MR) taking feats that boost will and reflex saves (mainly) is certainly not such a bad move.

 

5 percent can make a difference, but not only for hold spells. If you lower dex by 2 for wis or take the "iron will" instead of the "dodge" feat for example your AC will be lower and enemies will get 5 percent extra hit chance with each physical attack, and they will attack your solo character very often.
Your AC is probably checked more than 100 times as often as your will save value.

+1 will save bonus usually means 5 percent higher save chance vs hold person for a character without SR, for 19 of 20 hold spells it doesn't matter if you got the bonus or not.
With MR the bonus is only about 5 percent of 30 (or even less) percent, so not even 1 of 60 spells is affected by the bonus.

Getting caught by a "hold" spell and watching the enemies hack at your helpless character is more painful, but the danger is much higher that you'll have to reload because your character got hit too often. Getting a good defense or being able to kill enemies fast should have priority.

 

Some good advice there from kmonster. If anything, he is not praising MR strongly enough. You will gain levels very quickly very early when soloing. It will easily stop 80% of spells even before saves are considered. From a powergaming perspective, solo drow/DG is clearly better than any of the other races.


Some more general solo advice:
Summons are king (true regardless of party size). Any primary caster can grind his way through the game solo by spending most of his spell slots on summons, and resting whenever they run low. It will be boring though.
Blasting spells will be harder to use solo unless you have some summons. Web alone probably isn't enough.
Ranged weapons -- there are good ones, but this isn't BG. Solo you would definitely need summons.
Only remaining choice: melee. Fighter, rogue, multiclass, etc. Best choice is probably cleric since he can heal and buff himself. Regardless of class, DG is the best choice, for the AC boost.

 

I never said you shouldn't take dodge. If you read my first post on this page you would have noticed that I wrote "I'd pick Dodge and Luck of Heroes first." I never said that it was wise to dump DEX for WIS. I just made a point that increasing your chances to avoid these effects by taking feats like luck of heroes or iron will isn't a bad idea when you solo.

Like I said, I've played enough solo games to know what I'm talking about. Low level MR won't protect your character that much (although it's very good at higher levels).

If you don't believe me try a Drow or Deep Gnome solo with dumped WIS (since according to your logic Will saves are not useful for races with MR) and see how well MR works before you get to level 10.

What about daytime blindness? I guess powergamers try and pick up fights indoors or at night?

Exactly and that's why I don't like HoF. I hate when summons do all the work. I've soloed a Sorcerer and there are many spells that can be used. I remember getting Wail of the Banshee in the Ice Temple. When soloing you don't care or mind about micromanaging.

 

I never said you said you shouldn't take dodge or that you said it was wise to dump DEX for WIS. I just gave an "example" for the priority of AC or damage output over saving throw boosts.

According to my "logic" will saves are less useful than offensive or defensive combat boosts, "not useful for races with MR" cannot be concluded. If you read my 3rd post you'd have seen that I even recommended 16 wis for a solo deep gnome fighter.

 

I agree about the priority of AC (meaning taking the Dodge feat at character creation) but what do you have in mind when you refer to "damage output"?

Is it Power Attack and Cleave? I'm not convinced of its efficiency at lower levels and I wouldn't take it right at the beginning when soloing.

IMHO Expertise is a better choice especially for a spellcaster since turning it on while spellcasting doesn't hinder the character's efficiency.

I for one would only take Power Attack to get Cleave as soon as possible (which is always a good idea for a solo) or Expertise for a spellcaster. But to get the most of these feats it's best to have a base attack of at least 5 so I do believe it can be delayed.

Rapid Shot is better with a high DEX and when soloing ranged attacks can only be used to soften the opposition before melee or to take out enemy spellcasters from afar. Once again at lower levels the efficiency of this feat is questionable (just like Two Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity, it's always nice to double your attacks but there's no point in doing so if you can't hit anything because of the penalty).

Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are good (especially the second) provided you know what weapon you are going to specialize in. Besides it is not crucial since the second rank can only be taken at level 4.

Bottom line IMHO a fighter will have far enough feats to get all the good feats even if Iron Will or Luck of Heroes are taken early on and since Will saves are always the lowest for a fighter I don't see it as such a waste.

I had noticed, I was just giving an "example" . No offence but that's just too much stat dumping (CHA and INT) for me. I'd rather have a character with 10 WIS and Iron Will and maybe even waste one of my fighter's feats on Discipline (if I can't take Luck of Heroes or Bullheaded instead) in order to have 6 points to spare in CHA or INT but that's a matter of taste.

If I had to choose between two suits of armour, one that is very good but which looked crap on my screen and another one which would be average but would look nice I'd pick the second one and the same goes for stats. I may like seeing nice uber stats straight 18s and 20s but I couldn't stand a 1 CHA or 3 INT to get them.

 

Feats that increase damage output: Cleave, heroic inspiration, weapon focus, rapid shot, improved critical ...

Cleave should shine at low levels, when you have only one attack per round and the enemies have few enough HP to die after one hit this feat can nearly double your number of attacks.
Rapid shot isn't that great at low levels, but not because you get hit problems (you don't) but because it doesn't work with crossbows. The heavy crossbow you get early on does so much damage that you need a third attack per round (BAB 6 + rapid shot) to do considerably more damage.
2-weapon fighting can be very effective at very low levels, but at higher levels it's far inferior to 2-handed weapons since when the BAB grows you only get additional main hand attacks which could cause far more damage with 2-handed weapons. Not worth taking feats for.

Saving throw boosters don't hurt, but there are some feats I'd definitely take first with a barbarian or fighter:
Power attack, cleave, dash, dodge, heroic inspiration, rapid shot, improved critical, weapon focus: axe, ...

 

Improved Critical is a must have feat but it can't be taken early in the game.

Heroic Inspiration is not available to straight fighters (only to Bards, Barbarians and Paladins) it is good because it enhances defense and offense (not to mention the save bonus) but I'd rather take a permanent bonus (especially if you're playing a character who is avoiding blows at all costs like a spellcaster with expertise, mirror image and stoneskin).

Cleave is really good if you have a two hander (so you can actually get that extra bonus attack) and Great Cleave is the kind of feat that is only useful for solo fighters (to dispatch hordes of low level creatures, it's the fighter's death spell).

Rapid Shot is not just for bows! Used with thrown weapons it allows to take advantage of the hefty STR bonus that a fighter may have (it works with darts, slings, throwing hammers, axes and daggers). Slings are just great when they are used that way. Depending on the STR bonus it can be as good as a crossbow (if not better since the STR bonus is not die dependent and you'll get more attacks) and it allows the fighter to use a shield as well.

Dirty Fighting is a minor but useful feat that can be taken as well to make sure that a critical hit will cripple a foe.

It's a matter of taste and gameplay (I like Paladins more than Barbarians) and for a Fighter I'd take: Dodge, Luck of Heroes (if human, Iron Will if non human), Dash (soloers need that!), Expertise (if INT is high enough, it's a nice feeling when your character evades all hits but natural 20s), Iron Will (if human), Rapid Shot, Power Attack, Cleave, etc.

[ August 15, 2007, 11:31: Message edited by: Caradhras ]