Dutch paedophiles to launch political party

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Thats what happened with American Nazism... they were allowed to do some pretty terrible things because of freedom of speech.

But, back on topic, because, as you said Abomination, these guys are 'utter lunatics', I don't think that anyone will support them as they would your expert economist. These guys do not have society's best interest at heart, merely their own perverted fantasies at heart.

 

Which were summarily dismissed because no sane person would ever consider pedophilia an issue of personal freedom.........

The only "chips" we've seen so far are "chips" that most of us have no problem with. Our morals may be decaying (in your opinion), but that doesn't change the fact that violent crimes are decreasing in this atmosphere of "moral decay" and we are protecting children (and even animals) from cruelty and exploitation to a greater degree than we have ever seen. I'm sorry, but the facts are pointing to a conclusion which is the exact opposite of what you are implying. I'd challenge the validity of your logic, but you aren't employing logic with your assertion. You are employing a fallacy.

 

There are matters that we all can agree on and there there are matters which we can't. Child molestation and animal sex belong to the first group and the consensus says 'no' to it due of the fact that it wars against the very basic foundations of today's norms.

Day-time porn movies in TV belong to the latter one. I wouldn't mind seeing more porn in TV, since it almost seems like there is none today. Not even that watered up stuff from Playboy. And from *this* we can thank the conservatives.

Anyway, ditto to what Mesmero said. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it is a different matter does anyone listen. Also, IIRC, isn't it so that in arabian countries (and India) they usually marry off the girls at an age of 14?

 

He he he...the OP was really funny..

PS: At all you guys...do you really think they are going to be a significant political force in the Netherlands? I doubt it...

 

*wonders* How is it a bad thing that they have freedom of speech? Is it really harming anyone for them to have their stupid views and be able to say them? No one's listening. No one really cares - so what's the problem? It doesn't mean that freedom of speech is failing because these kinds of people can use it - indeed, it shows that it's going pretty good. This is not a problem with free speech, but rather a bonus int hat we get to hear some wacked out points of view

'Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're really in favor of free speech, then you're in favor of freedom of speech for precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech.' - Noam Chomsky

 

Yes, because the more they share their views, the more people get used to them, and then perhaps sympathize with them, and then join them.

I have nothing against free speech, I was just saying that.

Go speech!
Go freedom!
Go speechy freedoms!

 

I think there is a logical error in that statement.
If something is discussed openly and without prejudice and as a result people change their opinion could not that mean that their previous viewpoint was faulty?

I agree with the Chomsky quote that Aikanaro posted.

 

Is this a serious question ? What kind of place do you think we live in here ? There's a bigger chance that the Earth will collide with the moon, than that such a group of perverted creatures get a political foothold here. The minute the speakers go public like normal politicians do, they will most likely end up being shot or stabbed to death, which i would applaud by the way.

 

@Pac man
You approve of murder when it happens to people expressing an opinion that differs from yours?

 

Now you're making it sound as if i'm some nut that wants to shoot everyone who doesn't agree with me, don't you think that question is a bit over the top ? But if you're asking me if i'd loose any sleep over the murder of a childmolester, i'd have to say that it indeed wouldn't bother me one bit.

 

@Pac man
There are two things you might not have considered when you made that statement:

1. You are assuming that any pedophile or a member of that party is a "childmolester". Don't you think that assumption is wrong? I think it is like saying that a heterosexual man is a rapist of women. I believe that it legal to be a pedophile, but not to have sex with children. There is quite a difference between thought and action.

2. If society does not condone murder for any reason then why should you do it? Do you think the world would be a better place if we abolished law enforcement completely and let people commit what they consider to be "justified" murder instead?

 

Yeah well, anyone who fantasizes about having sex with children is a ticking timebomb, sooner or later he wishes to live his or her dream. I agree that there's not much one could do if a pedophile hasn't put the deed to the thought, but it wouldn't hurt, if he's known to have such thoughts, to keep a closer watch on his private ongoings. And in case of sexually active pedophiles, well...they simply don't belong in our society, they have proven to be extremely mindsick, and there's simply no cure for that other than to take them out. History has proven time and time again that once they are back on the streets, sooner or later they go at it again. Would you be willing to take that risk ?

 

Pac man: Not that I defend pedophiles in any way, but I simply feel like correcting something. It's not true that if someone fantasizes about something, he will do it at some point. Say, someone has a fantasy about robbing a bank doesn't mean he necessarily would do it at any point of his life.
I will go as far as say that there are those that may have had a fantasy about sex with a child, or many other illegal things - of sexual nature and otherwise, and will never do anything of that sort.
So, I agree with Earl Gray here. Freedom of thought gives you the freedom to think of anything you like to, including child molesting, althought it is thought to be sick by many.

As I said, I'm in no way defending pedophiles, just pointing out something. If someone really committed sexual abuse on a child, off to jail they go.

 

But the problem is that the authorities still don't handle these situations very well. A child abused at a very young age, may never live a normal life, because of his/her experiences, and thus more or less become a prisoner of his own mind, while the person responsible for it, sits out a two year prisonterm, or whatever, and is then free to walk the streets again. Even worse, convicted childmolesters get some sort of identity protection, so that they can blend right in in any neighbourhood, and the people who live there never have any clue what kind of monster lives right next door to them.

I think the people deserve to know when there is a convicted childmolester living among them, especially when it's a neighbourhood with lots of kids running around in playgrounds and stuff.

 

Well, that I agree with. Anyone should know if there's a pedophile living next door, just like anyone should know there's a murderer, any other sex criminal, drug dealer or somesuch.
Even thought the pedophile might never repeat the act, it's still very risky. So, even thought you have freedom of thought, if it has been proven that it doesn't stop in thinking, then precautions should be taken.

 

As long as I'm not the one killing them, I won't lose much sleep over a dead child molester. The horror they've inflicted upon innocent children is incomprehensible.

But please differenciate between a Pedophile and a "child molester". Is this the same as comparing the tempted to the actual sinner?

 

It would be best if we knew everything about our neighbors. There should be surveillance cameras in all homes and everyone should have access to any of these at any time. I mean, it would be safer if we knew what our neighbors were up to at all times.
They could be doing something nasty.

George Orwell's "1984" is my vision of Utopia, well except that I'd prefer if I was allowed to murder according to my private morals and not have the government tell me about that. But apart from that the 1984 world seem pretty sweet.

 

That analogy is as good as any. A child molester is someone who actually commits the act, whereas a pedophile fantasizes about it. So it is likely that all child molesters are pedophiles but not necessarily are all pedophiles child molesters.

I know this may vary from one place to another, but I was under the impression that ALL sex offenders - whether or children or otherwise - were required to register in a national database, and notify authorities if they plan on moving.

 

Maybe in the US, i'm not sure about how it works here. I don't think they keep a very close eye on their daily business once they are released. I mean look at what happened in Belgium recently. Two girls were kidnapped, sexually abused, and murdered, by a two times convicted childmolester. Apparently they don't give a crap once they're out there.

Perhaps they do have such a database, but one could question what the hell for if you hear of things like i mentioned above.

 

You're not sure? Never, ever enter a debate with unsure points, they can seriously mess up it all.
But anyways, that's offtopic.