Favourite historical hero?

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An additional 2 - Muhammad and Nelson Mandela.

Shralp, are you anti-everything and everyone that does not fall into your perfect American Capitalist and Catholic category? I did not quite understand it at first, but after checking your home page http://www.jamiedmcdonald.com/blogger.html and several of your posts, you really enjoy attacking everything; religion, political view points and freedom of opinion.

I'd not even argue with you for sooner or later, I'll be labelled as ignorant by you.

[ October 12, 2002, 19:21: Message edited by: Astin X ]

 

Muhammad married Aisha in a political move and a personal favor to her father, Abu Bakr, who was a close friend of Muhammad. Abu Bakr was incredibly loyal to Muhammad; he gave up a fortune to follow the path of Islam. In ancient Arabia, kinship was incredibly important. Muhammad was in the process of forming a new idea of community, one based on shared ideas, but a blood-tie to an ally was still very important at this point in the game. Islam needed the backing of clans and tribes to spread. Christianity had the benefits of existing under the pax Romana. The wandering missionary approach used by the Apostles would not work in Arabia; without tribal protection, a person is fair game to be robbed and murdered.

Muhammad married many women. His harem was nothing compared to those of the Kings David or Solomon, but he had more than enough wives. Welcome to a different society. Polygamy was fine, even encouraged, as long as the wives were taken care of. The warlike life of a man in Arabia meant that an early death was likely. Polygamy neatly took care of the many widows created by such a society, who would otherwise have been left with whatever her brothers could provide. The practicalities of life and politics do not mesh with the mores of civilization on the other side of the world 1,400 years later, but that does not make them wrong for those conditions.

 

Hmm. I don't like Rommel or Mohammed, so I must be intolerant. Good reasoning there.

"you really enjoy attacking everything; religion, political view points and freedom of opinion." Actually, Astin, what I enjoy is the truth. I want to discover as much of it as I can. When people post things like that they admire Nazis or child molesters, I simply cannot let that go by. (Mohammed consummated his marriage to the girl when she was 9! That doesn't compare to the harems of old. That's child rape.)

Similarly on my web site (presumably you skipped over the positive and humorous posts, but that is to be expected as I'm sure the posts critical of your views are more memorable to you) I can't and won't let people get by with mindlessness. There are too many people who just go along and follow the herd without thinking critically or getting the facts to back up their positions.

But let's look at what I've written:

1. Critique of Indian atheists who say Mother Theresa was no saint
2. My second violin lesson
3. A book on vampires I'm reading
4. Critique of the Miss America officials for not allowing Miss America to speak on abstinence
5. Installed BlogAmp on my page
6. Migration of men from Mexico leaves towns full of women
7. News that the Miss America officials backed down
8. Comments on a woman upset that she saw her dead baby in a jar after her abortion
9. Critique of the idea that the US Catholic bishops are going to write a new catechism
10. Link to the monastery where a friend of mine lives
11. Notice of subscription service to my site
12. News that zookeepers in Germany were eating the petting zoo animals
13. Notice that my site is now searchable
14. Welcome to people from Sorcerers Place adding comments on my site
15. News that Pope John Paul II is declaring five new mysteries for the rosary
16. News about a new tactic in the debate about whether homosexuality is a choice
17. News that Miss America wants to run for office as a Republican
18. News that SP jumped to #3 on list of referrers to my site
19. Collection of Sept. 11 quotes
20. Comments on the DC sniper and critique of liberals using this to rationalize gun control
21. Notice of Jeff Utech's site

So out of 21 posts I see five that are critiques, including one that is critical of Catholics. Not quite the long list of rants you make it out to be, is it?

 

Rommel was regular German Army, he was not a Nazi, nor was he part of any SS regiment. In fact, Rommel was involved in a plot to kill Hitler. I've always thought he was someone to admire...He fought for his country, and tried to end Nazi rule.

Zhukov was a pretty good general too! IIRC he was responsible for the victory at Kursk, the largest and most decisive tank battle of WWII - and basically turned the tide against Germany and the Axis powers!

Unfortunately, I can't really agree on any of the religious figures people have posted. In general, I think organized religion is a bad thing. It tends to alienate those that don't believe the same things. Most of the conflicts going on today revolve around religious differences rather than philosophical or territorial issues. Don't get me wrong, I have my own beliefs, but when you think about the issues that divide people most, religion is a biggie...That's why people never discuss it on dates!

I also tend to hold inventors/scientists in higher regard. Generally they improve most everyone's lives. Think of electricity, engines, airplanes, space exploration, computers, and atomic energy...All amazing inventions that have helped the evolution of mankind.

But, the greatest of all historical heroes would have to be Hugh Hefner! He discovered playboy, and jump started generations of young men into puberty!!! He can't be topped, IMHO.

I had to end on a less serious note!

 

Actually, whether or not Rommel was involved in the plot on Hitler's life is a matter of dispute.

http://www.valourandhorror.com/DB/PERSON/Rommel.htm

From the book Rommel: the Desert Fox: "Rommel strongly supported the National Socialist movement and was identified early on by Hitler for his outstanding talent."

He was, before becoming commander of the Afrika Corps, in charge of Hitler's security in Prague and later in the invasion of Poland. Yeah, there's a great role model. I hope you guys grow up to protect genocidal madmen too. Mama would be so proud.

 

Will the Real Mathetais please stand up?

Jesus is #1 on the list.

Paul of Tarsus has to be #2. I just finished re-reading the Book of Acts and he was a total stud.

John Calvin, Martin Luther and St. Augustin all make the list.

Robert E. Lee ... a brilliant leader and a proud supporter of small government ... for a damn Yankee to put him on my list, he's got to be good! (cue Dukes of Hazard flashback)

Churchhill.

 

Recent = Bob Hope!!!!!

Not so recent = George Washington - "Brit Buster"

Back in the day = William Wallace

Way the hell back in time = Joe, the T Rex

 

I was thinking of saying 'Parents'

Because that's who i believe are heroes, others may base themselves on famous people who don't know anything about us. But I think parents, along with docters and friends are the real heroes of today

So my heroes are - My mother, my docters and my friends

 

Hitler's security was responsibility of SS troops (1st Waffen SS Division "Leibsandarte Adolf Hitler" and not of Wehrmacht's troops. Rommel was commander of Hitler's HQ staff. He was given this post not because of his nazi ideas, as you like to believe, but because of his talent in military issues. As for his participation in the conspiracy against Hitler:

"In the summer of 1944 Rommel was approached about joining the July Plot. He refused, criticising the tactic of assassination claiming that it would turn Adolf Hitler into a martyr. Instead he suggested that he should be arrested and brought to trial.

In the autumn of 1944 Hitler discovered that Rommel was plotting against him. On 14th October, 1944, Rommel was visited by two generals who had been sent by Hitler with an ultimatum: suicide with a state funeral and protection for his family and staff, or trial for high treason. Erwin Rommel took poison and officially it was stated that he had died of a brain seizure."

www.ez-zone.co.uk/ww2desert/rommel.htm

 

8people:

Your parents are historic?

 

as long as they aren't history!

 

Great. Whatever. Admire someone who fought to protect a madmen he knew was killing millions of people. Go nuts.

 

ooooooh Shralp going sarcastic everybody duck!

On a more serious note: What about people (not neccesarily Rommel) that started out supporting the Nazi (or any other) Regime, but found out the thruth about their regime and started working against it or helping the jews or whatever?

 

Looks like those people forgot to read Mein Kampf when they considered the Nazi Party.

 

Please lay off the Rommel McDonald stuff. Everyone go to the local community college, enroll in a modern history class, get edumakated, and form your own opinions. Sheesh ... picking on poor Sharlp just because he dares disagree. He doesn't admire the guy, others do ... I didn't see John Calvin on anyone else's list and my panties aren't tied in a knot!

Rant over ... back to my coffee

[ October 17, 2002, 14:48: Message edited by: Mathetais ]

 

"Leonidas, King of Sparta
He led an army of 1000 men against a Persian army of 1000000 and he was defeated because of treason."

you gotta be kidding me, ONE MILLION MEN???? That's crazy, no nation back then had that kind of a army.

I like Jo-Yuan-Zang, the first emepror of the ming dynasty of china, since this guy was a pratically a beggar when he was young, and he rose to the seat of emperor, that is a VERY hard to do.

Another one is Genghis Khan, he united the mongolians and made them into the greatest army in the world at that time, a very difficult goal as they were simple barbarians living in tents before then.

another one is "Enrique", the haiti(was it how their called) who rebelled against Christopher Columbus who basically killed off the Haiti from their 2 million population to about 4 thousand in like 8 years, and also won their independence, against the spanish who had firearms, horses and heavy armor.

Another one is Mao-Ze-Dong, he may have been a bloodthristy dictator, but he has fought against the japanese for a long time yet with the simplest of firearms(smallr rifles who only had like 2 bullets each), almost no tanks, navy and planes, and starving/sick troops, while Chiang-Kai-Check(is that how he was called?) had a much larger force, yet only went to was with the japanese when a few people kidnapped him and forced him to declare war on Japan.

[ October 17, 2002, 20:25: Message edited by: Ray192 ]

 

Ray, do you realize that Mao is number one or two on the list of people responsible for the most human deaths in history? I'm going to try to find some approximate figures, but I know the Great Leap Forward alone was responsible for 30 million fatalities. Think about that.
That is roughly equivalent to his killing the entire metropolitan area of New York City's population. Twice.

[ October 17, 2002, 21:03: Message edited by: The Deviant Mage ]

 

It's absolutely true. Just think the size of persian empire in 480BC. It was extended from the shores of Minor Asia to the borders of India.

 

I believe Persia sent an army of 200,000 men (which would probably be most of it) against Greece. The Spartans sent only 300 of their finest warriors in a suicide mission against the Persians, killing thousands, and lost becaues a Greek traitor had showed a way for the Persians to surround the Spartans. Leonidas, of course, died in the battle. A naval battle led by Athens and then a land battle led by the Spartans did the Persians in.

 

favorite historical hero has to be Winston Curchill. For man born in a bathroom he did alot