Forget Kensai

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@Felinoid
"Druids tend to view all things as cyclic, and thus, the battles of good and evil are only the rising and falling tides of time. Only when the cycle and balance are disrupted does the druid become concerned."

First of all, while this might have sounded good in whatever guide book you read it out of, this standard would be useless in any real life context. How would you determine the length and breadth of a cycle? Is it (God I'm not going to do this am I?!! I can't believe it...I am) an emergence of the One in the Matrix or is the eventual return to peace at the end of the trilogy (God forgive me). Those are judgement calls that are left to individuals. If your description were correct, "true" druids would never do anything because they would always be debating whether or not the cycle was being disrupted or if the current events were simply part of a larger cycle (I don't know if you're going to understand any of this). Anyway, whether or not you get me, my point is, once again, people shouldn't act like BG rules make sense in real life. Its a game.

 

I may be wrong here, but I seem to recall that a part of the Refinements mod changed part of how armour works. This includes movement speed penaltied, maximum dexterity bonuses and (I think) damage reduction bonuses.

I would have thought Neutral Good would be more appropriate in this case as 'These characters believe that a balance of forces is important'.

Agreed. If Kensais wanted NO encumberance then they'd have to adventure naked. Additionally, robe could be taken to mean a more japanese style of clothing such as a kimino. While it may not be traditional, that material would be no harder to enchant than ordinary cloth and would hardly restrict the wearer's actions.

Wisdom is a prime requisite for Druids, is it not? You'd hope they'd be wise enough to at least have a reasonable idea of whether this is a recent, unnatural upheaval or not. Plus, I'd assume (I don't have any handbook to refer to here) that Druids would study different cycles as part of their training and, as such, be rather good at recognising them and knowing what do do upon finding them.

 

As Bombur has already pointed out, that is exactly what AC calculates. A glancing blow that does not penetrate the armor is considered a miss, even though you were "hit" by the attack. The "to hit" roll is what is needed to HIT AND CAUSE DAMAGE. Now, I agree in principle that a character clunking around in full plate armor should have his movements restricted somewhat, so it is perhaps reasonable that a character wearing full plate mail should not receive the full bonus from a high dexterity score. However, the reason why it's more difficult to "hit" a character wearing full plate mail than leather armor is because there is a higher chance that the attack does not penetrate the full plate mail compared to the leather armor.

 

History. As a cycle, it's happened before. They'd already know the average, the variations, etc. and would be ready to record whatever new variation turned up.

Ignoring the contradiction between it being "left to individuals" and having to debate it endlessly, I'll answer them separately. First, it's not up to individuals to go crusading off like Jaheira does. And second, they're not so stupid as to debate endlessly while the world was falling into ruin. They would make a decision to either interfere (in a much subtler manner than you're likely thinking), or decide to sit back and see what develops.

That's rather unnecessarily condescending. Because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't get it. I understand your arguments perfectly, I just don't agree with them. I spent a some time studying druids and their ethos because I didn't understand it at first either. But they do make sense; you just have to be willing to see it.

Imagine, if you please, some secret extra-governmental agency that works behind the scenes to maintain order in the world. They don't favor one nation over the other, unless you count times when they would do something in the favor of one nation to help preserve peace, or something like that. Now imagine that they just don't give a hoot about the "small" stuff like wars between nations, so long as the whole world isn't in danger. And to bring it home, let's imagine that this organization isn't so secret (everyone knows about druids), but still people can't pin any of the odd happenings that are their doing on them, and you begin to understand how druids operate.

 

@Felinoid
I'm not being condescending, I'm just pointing out how hopeless it is to try and have a philosophical debate on a message board. It's all but impossible to express yourself adequately in a hastily written paragraph and it seems that I didn't manage to pull it off.
IE
"History. As a cycle, it's happened before. They'd already know the average, the variations, etc. and would be ready to record whatever new variation turned up."

There's no reason to debate the nature of cycles vs. human perspective because it just isn't feasible to do so on a message board. It isn't anyone's fault though.

Although I will say, I understand your goverment agency analogy but, its clear from the game that not all druids operate under the same leadership or to the same ends so it doesn't really follow to think they should all have the same alignment.

 

On that we agree. I don't think a druid's "neutral alignment" was originally meant to be a TN straightjacket, but rather a prohibition from fighting for good or evil. (The PHB mentions staying out of the battle between good and evil, but doesn't say anything about Law/Chaos leanings.) For example, the highly ordered Druidic hierarchy can be seen as simply a necessary step to prevent lone operators from working against each other, or it could be looked upon by some as a command structure to be followed no matter what. Faldorn and the Shadow Druids would be CN (bat-sh*t crazy), while the druid who warned you about her upon your entrance to the Druid Grove area, who follows the chain of command even knowing that what Faldorn is doing is wrong, would be LN.

Or you could just take the stance that the game simply got something wrong for the 5001st time.

 

Oh, dmc, you killjoy. The thread is simply evolving.

 

the calculation of ac scores is just another example of how 3e makes more logical sense and 2e is better for power gaming

ofcourse ac should be a tradeoff between dexterity and how heavy the armor is, not just a combination of the two stats

 

Kensai-Mage vs. Berserker-Mage ( let's assume that both are dualled at the "popular" level 13) :


Kensai :

a) +4 THACO & Damage bonus and -3 to his weapon's speed factor
b) 4x Kai
c) -2 AC

Berserker :

a) 4x Rage (immunity to imprisonment,maze,etc.)
b) can use Shields (shield of Balduran,Reflection,Harmony)
c) can use Helmets (Balduran's,Vhailor's)
d) can use Bows (arrows of dispelling - the easiest way of dispelling in the game IMHO)
e) can use Bracers (Bracers of AC 3,Gauntlets of E.S.,etc.)
f) can use Armor (Bladesinger Chain etc.)


The Berserker is much more versatile without the Kensai's restrictions.But the most important advantage,IMO,is that he can use the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization (+1 THAC0,+2 dmg,+ 1/2 attack per round).
With them the Berserker reduces the Kensai's advantage on THACO and dmg and the +1/2 ApR (+1 with the improved haste) makes him a better fighter.

 

I have never tried a Berserker-Mage. I simply must have one . I have a Kensai-Mage but she is dueled at 6 level.She is very good at what she was designed to do. I don't look at the Kensai-Mage as purely a melee powerhouse, I look at it as a mage with some nice bonuses.

 

I dunno. The Kensai still has Kai, after all - more than enough for the bosses whom you cannot pulverize without magely skills.

 

Kai lasts ten seconds...that's nothing...

 

10seconds and it only gives maximum damage...

With most weapons theres a neglible difference between average and maximum damage.

If it gave an increase critical chance then it might be worth something.

 

I suppose I would go for Kensai myself, especially as it somehow fits with Mage (despite the item restriction), especially the Fighter/Mage idea. Don't know about Berserker/Mage... to be honest, I've heard about it but never considered it because it feels quite odd.

An important distinction is whether you want a fighter/mage per se or a mage with useful bonuses and some melee power. I'm inclined to think Kensai abilities provide a nicer blend with those of a Fighter/Mage spellsword than Berserker abilities do, but you're welcome to prove me wrong. For the best of two worlds, I would go with a Fighter/Mage multiclass, anyway, in order to get both HLA pools and probably the best thac0 and the best ease of use. I consider the dual-classing mechanism broken and completely out of touch with reality if you're made to pretend you aren't able to use weapons in which you had mastery as a fighter before.

 

Son of a...are we going to have to have this discussion again? Screw it, I'm not taking another thread off-topic. Go here to be enlightened. And if you want to take it further, make a post in the D&D forum; I assure you, I'll be there.

 

The kensai can get an extra attack per round from weapons (e.g., Belm). Extra attacks don't stack, so it might be better not to consider that +1/2 APR.

Also, the speed factor bonus can be quite valuable -- especially if (1) you are using a weapon with a disabling ability, (2) you are trying to interrupt spell casting, or (3) you are relatively evenly matched with your opponent.

I agree that the berserker is more versatile. But there are often multiple ways of getting the bonuses offered by certain magic items (e.g., spells, scrolls, potions, other magic items). For instance, with regard to AC, AC is largely irrelevant when you are protected from magic weapons, mirror imaged and stoneskinned. These protections can be maintained with simple spell immunities.

 

1) Are you sure extra attacks don't stack?
2) Even if they do, you're much better off using Crom Faeyr or The Equalizer in the offhand.

This thread has definitely convinced me that a Berserker > Mage is superior to a Kensai > Mage (although I'll take a Fighter/Mage or Fighter/Illusionist over either in BG!).

 

Personally, I wouldn't count 10 seconds worth of Maximum Damage as nothing. (30, if you use all three Kais in quick succession)
And at the rate these guys are going (6-10 attacks per round with Improved Haste), Maximum Damage can mean quite a difference.
And if all else fails, you can simply use Kai to go with the Slayer Form.

@Bombur
Actually, they do.

 

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And if all else fails, you can simply use Kai to go with the Slayer Form.
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Can't resist myself to add: This is wicked, man!