From D.C. with Love ... a big "F*** you" to the U.N.

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If you say so... I obviously had to make a very wide generalization there to get the point across, and it's mostly valid, so picking at the details doesn't really change anything. You also keep making assumptions about what I think about certain things I never mentioned in my posts, but I'm not going to start refuting each of them, it'd take me way too long, not to mention be irrelevant to the point I was making.

Uh-huh. Historical facts, however, override your personal opinion on this one.

Chronology

September 1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war.

February 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries.

December 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq.

1982-1988. Defense Intelligence Agency provides detailed information for Iraq on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for air strikes and bomb damage assessments.

November 1983. A National Security Directive states that the U.S. would do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing its war with Iran.

November 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq. Iraq, with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods for Iraq's missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.

October 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act.

November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians.

December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support.

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application.

March 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement recognizing Iraq's use of these weapons.

May 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax.

May 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq.

March 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua.

May 17, 1987. Iraqi attack on USS Stark costs 37 American lives. Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger declares, "We will not be driven from the gulf," and accepts Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's apology for the "unintentional incident."

Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq.

February 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages.

April 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas.

August 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas are used. By this time the US Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. (For confirmation of DIA involvement, check the New York Times, August 18, 2002). Use of chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925.

August 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire.

August 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and Hughes helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds.

September 1988. US Senate Foreign Relations Committee summarizes their knowledge of the victims of the chemical attacks: "Those who were very close to the bombs died instantly. Those who did not die instantly found it difficult to breathe and began to vomit. The gas stung the eyes, skin, and lungs of the villagers exposed to it. Many suffered temporary blindness. Those who could not run from the growing smell, mostly the very old and the very young, died."

September 8, 1988 U.S. Senate unanimously passes the "Prevention of Genocide Act of 1988" the day after it is introduced. The act would have cut off from Iraq U.S. loans, military and non-military assistance, credits, credit guarantees, items subject to export controls, and U.S. imports of Iraqi oil. Immediately after the bill’s passage the Reagan Administration announces its opposition to the bill, and State Department spokesman Charles Redman calls the bill "premature.” Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State says, "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives." The Administration works with House opponents to a House companion bill, and after numerous legislation compromises and end-of-session haggling, the Senate bill dies.

September 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax to Iraq.

September 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulinum toxin to Iraq.

September 1988. December 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons.

July 25, 1990. US Ambassador to Baghdad meets with Hussein to assure him that President Bush "wanted better and deeper relations". Many believe this visit was a trap set for Hussein. A month later Hussein invaded Kuwait thinking the US would not respond.

August 1990. Iraq invades Kuwait. The precursor to the Gulf War.

Late February and March 1991. U.S.-led forces slaughter the Iraqi army as it retreats from Kuwait. Then George H. W. Bush calls an abrupt halt to the Gulf War. During the confusion, Bush calls for Iraqis to rise up against Saddam Hussein. But Hussein is allowed to fly his helicopters in order to crush the rebellion in the north and south of Iraq. At least an additional 100,000 people are killed and hundreds of thousands of refugees flee into the mountains along the border of Iraq and Turkey.

July 1991. The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80's using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians.

August 1991. Christopher Droguol of Atlanta's branch of Banca Nazionale del Lavoro is arrested for his role in supplying loans to Iraq for the purchase of military supplies. He is charged with 347 counts of felony. Droguol is found guilty, but US officials plead innocent of any knowledge of his crime.

June 1992. Ted Kopple of ABC Nightline reports: "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980's, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power]."

September 1992. US Representative Henry Gonzalez of Texas in testimony before the House: "The arming of Iraq is one of the most incredible chapters in recent foreign policy. Not only were foreign aid programs and international financial systems abused, but our military men and women were sent to fight the very war machine we helped create."

February 1994. Senator Riegle form Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome.

August 2002. "The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times.

(Source.)

 

Be careful labelling what you don't understand as nonsense.

I never wrote anything that would indicate that the US is the only country in the world which could do that. In fact, here's what I wrote: "The US is the only country in the world which can pick a target country on the other side of the world it doesn't like for some reason, invade it, and get away with it scot-free, not having to answer to anyone for anything."

I've bolded the important bits in the sentence for you to help you comprehend what the point of it was.

 

Yes, you get it now, you obviously didn't before, as you're singing a completely different tune now. There was no mention of consequences anywhere in your previous post.

Yes, that's one way of looking on it, but I wasn't talking about the silly idea of the US attacking one of the European countries because I think it's very obvious that most of Europe would rise up at something like that. I was talking about feasible military targets for the US, like Iraq, Iran, Syria etc.

There's a rules sticky in AoDA which spells out what you can and can't do pretty clearly. I'd reserve calling something nonsense unless it was really very and/or undeniably possible (with evidence) to prove it wrong. You're not even remotely there.

[ March 12, 2005, 15:26: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

Well, as I said above, we're talking about feasible military targets right now, not something there's next to no chance of ever happening in the present situation. Also, I very much doubt that England could attack say Madagascar at will without any international consequences. Still, as England is closely allied with the US, your example isn't really a very good one, because the no consequences scenario, if anything, would most likely come from the US backing what the UK did. As it is now, the US is in debt to the UK for supporting them on Iraq.

 

Neither does England, really. They're past that phase. It's now obviously the US's turn.

It also depends on what the motive for the invasion would be. Because, with Iraq, Bush can still claim he did it for the good of the Iraqi people and not be lying completely, even though it's obvious to some of us that this was only the by-product of Saddam's removal, not the intended goal. No country is that benevolent.

Anyway, we're now so completely off-topic that I better shut up before we start discussing white elephants or something...