Future of the EU

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That last paragraph is a great way of looking at things, monkey, I've never quiet seen it that way. Thanks .

Thats what i like about this place, hearing other people opinons and looking at things in a different perspective.

 

Well, you don't have to conquer the world with weapons these days. Money will do fine.

Coorperations rule, not armies.

 

He, he. That's an intersting point, the American Empire.

My view is, the best way for the European continent is splendid isolation. Eu or not, just work together and hands off any Empire.

Empire building: Well, I could care less if they're on the Empire-building trip or not, just 3 points worry me.

1. Economical cost. Americans are there to do business with us. If they, like they do now, throw all they're money in the Empire-drain, Empire costs an awful lot of money, it hurts business.

2. The logics of Empire demand, that they have all the geopolitical important regions in the world under control (Middle-Eastern-Oil-Fields) to secure the dominance. This attempt will lead to even more chaos in this region, which affects again the rest of the world economically. As Oil is not in unlimited supply on this planet, seems like they're going to have Euroasia be the economic-balls.

3. The logics of Empire demand further, that they must feel threatend by China (and India a little bit behind) and secure, that China does not grow in power. Hm, controlling the oil-supply ? As the growth of China is an irreversible fact, it forces the Empire to take a belligrent position versus China. Pissin' off China isn't the best idea in the world, in my opinion.

In short, some say China is like Germany in the 1890's, a danger rising to power. I say, China is like the England in the 16th, a rising power and the USA is like Spain, trying to build an invincible Armada. Imperial overstretch is economical suicide. I think, Europe should behave like a smart group of sailors, and jump from the sinking ship and try to swim to the saving coast and look for it's on economical survival.

 

Mollusken, I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, but when did you last leave Norway?

Firstly, what on earth does any of the EU stuff have to do with illegal immigrants? We are talking about migration within the EU, not immigration into it.

Crime is hardly a phenomenon restircted by borders and exclusive to "other countries". Criminals do not tend to put under "occupation" in their passports.

Secondly, on the points of Norway and passport controls... There is no passport control between Norway and the following countries: Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Germany, Austria, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece.

In other words the entire EU except Ireland and the UK.

Thirdly, since 1 Jan 1994, ANY EU citizen has been entitled to enter Norway to live and work, just like any Norwegian citizen can move to any EU country. This has neither caused an mass influx or an exedus between Norway and the EU to my knowledge.

Finally, there will be a seven year restriction on the new member countries joining from Eastern Europe in terms of free migration, in order to build up the infrastructure and improve the economies of these countries. Similar restrictions were applied when Spain and Portugal joined in 1986, but were lifted early when the economic growth of these countries improved, and they had net immigration from the rest of the EU, not the other way around.

Try to consider what the EU would do for Norway rather than just focus specific things that will have to change.

 

I was in Estonia at the end of March, and in Sweden in April. But I don't travel a lot (why would I ever want to see other countries, when I haven't even seen everything here?).

Norway will suffer from very little influence in the EU because of our small population (4,5 million). We will have very little to say in the parliament in Brüssel, and therefor we will have to adjust to a lot of laws which might not be the best solutions for Norwegian needs. I believe we can manage ourselves, and I don't understand why other countries in Europe can't do this as well.

 

We're likeley to join the EU as the last (if the ever want to accept us). I think Norway will be going in long before us. The problem is, Integration is reality. Rallymama mentioned US-mail. The Telecom sector is wholly integretated anyway. My cell-phone works over a British-company called "Orange". And the traditional post sector works perfectly from country to country. It acutally always did. Highways don't suddenly end on the frontier. It's easily possible to drive from Amsterdam direct to Southern-Italy. And everybody has a Nokia Cell phone. Now, would it be wise, if every European country would have it's own special law concerning cell-phones ? Or are any everyday problems known, concerning law and trade between European countries. Did they not accept an Italian Visa-Card in Kopenhagen or Mallorca ?

 

I've been waiting and hoping someone would make a connection with this. This fear of Mollusken's is precisely the reason and justification for an electoral system which protects the minority from being over run - which has been criticized extensively on these boards for being undemocratic - when it's in the U.S. anyways.

Just something interesting I thought.

As far as will it work - I posted something a while back, let's see, where was it....ah:

IF the EU collapses it'll probably be similar to this theory in some way. I regularly visit a board with a lot of European visitors as well and a number of them from various powerful European nations chimed in to say that in their opinion if it collapses it'll be because of something like that with the big nations getting fed up.

Note, this isn't saying that it's right around the corner or that Germany or others are on the brink. It was a 20-30 years down the road thing:

I dunno, seems reasonable.

EDIT - flood protection cut me off.

 

Yeah that's true, a lot of European countries (like mine) facing huge economical problems. They're on a turning point. They all need reform.

European-integration is not something which is chosen, it is something that already happened and is beyond political will. The economies have grown into eachother a long time ago.

Just which reform is another question.

But that has actually nothing to do with the EU. Those problems are homemade for all of them. But I am still waiting for those fools at the EU-central bank to jump into the inflation game. Dam, what's the reason in having an influential currency, when the influence is not used ? inflate now!

But, sigh, European countries are not the only economies of the world, which have a rocky road ahead.

The worst problem Europeans now face is a reform of the school-system. Germany is one of the worst, the northern states have f''''ed up their schoolsystem. And concering internal problems. I guess, the south-Germans will be fed-up with paying for the east and the north, sooner than Germany is fed-up with paying for the European rest. Some of those payments are good investment. I hope Poland becomes an economical-tiger, which will draw the "old" Europeans out of the slump. Europe can't rest on the shoulder of Finland and Nokia for the rest of eternity. The only other thriving economy and hope is China.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/1023629.stm

[ May 23, 2003, 17:34: Message edited by: Yago ]