Gorion vs. Firkraag

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@Felinoid: Is it not Power Word: Sleep he uses in Tutu? Perhaps I am getting confused there. You missed out his Shield spell though.

 

I'm more interested in how to be able to cast as fast as Gorion...

 

@Decados:
It's possible. I've only seen the Tutu version once or twice, so I can't claim full memory of how they changed it, but I'm 99.9% certain that there was no Shield spell cast in the regular BG1 version.

 

I remember him casting Shield.

 

It's Power Word: Sleep. I changed it because BG2's version of the Sleep spell was wrecking the cutscene somehow, but I forget the exact problem. (It's a poor fix anyway, and should probably be redone properly.) The Shield spell was always there, but you probably don't notice it in BG1 because it didn't have the ****ty animation BG2 plays over you when you cast it.

 

I'd say that the simple reason Sarevok was capable of gutting Gorion was simply because he had the advantage of an ambush, multiple allies to divert G's wrath, and managed to close into close combat with him, effectively preventing the mage from using any of his bigger spells. After all, no matter how powerful a mage you are, having a 7-foot-tall, heavily armoured, greatsword-wielding psycopath get within arm's reach of you without you having conjured any real protection means pain.

 

I'm keen to see the cutscene tomorrow!

I suppose for the story Gorion needed to die, pity he didnt cast timestop, IA, ADHW, comet, summon planetar, then dimension door everyone to safety.

Someone should make a Gorion vs Irenicus Ultimate Battle.

 

Gorion is wise and skilled, but as it has been already written, he is not too powerful alone, especially if there is no time to cast defensive magic.

It can be a special ability, for example. Yes, yes, it isn't among her special abilities, but how does the player know it without checking the file? And file & such stuff kills the fun. I personally liked it very much. It's so boring when every enemy acts in a predictible way, according to its class, has no special abilities etc. Unfortunately I don't belong to the majority with my opinion. E.g. in the Tamoko NPC mod, this matter was brought up, and IIRC it was refused. Because most people want rules, CLERIC is a CLERIC, mage abilities please get out! *Sigh* Rules are big limits. (Though many might think that players only want strict limits for this stuff, I think my GCE1 mod proves that unusual solutions which don't follow strict conventions also have future in modding. Please forgive me for the offtopic part of this post, I wished to tell it.)

 

Nah, I'm afraid there wouldn't be that much point in that one. Gorion may be a powerful mage and a skilled adventurer, but he simply isn't in the same league as Irenicus.

 

Looked at irenicus' stats, level 29 conjurer apparently.

So casting mass invisibility should absolutely stump him. I'll try it when I'm there, something tells me he wont play by the rules. The best thing about Irenicus is that he has such fast casting time (especially in the cutscenes) and can do spells no one else can.

On another note, my BG Compilation should be arriving today, cant wait. Post office says I should come back later...

 

Hmm, I had a look too and found him to be a 29th level mage. He had no kit for me.

Regardless of the truth of the matter, he still outmatches Gorion even without his ability to cast unrecognised spells on the fly instantly.

 

I seem to remember that in the original version of the BG game that I purchased waaaay back, that they had levels for many of the character you meet in the game in the manual. I thought people like Gorion, Elminster, Ulraunt, etc. were included, and they told you the level. I have no idea where that manual is now, unfortunately, so I have no way to check on this. I guess the point I'm making is even if Gorion is a level 20 mage, I think it depends on what his cleric levels are to see how superior Irenicus would be. For example, if Gorion is say cleric15/mage20, that actually may be better than a straight level 29 mage.

 

That may be true in game speak.

In "real D&D", Irenicus' power might not be the amount of spell power he has, but how he uses it. I mean, he can suck out people's souls. He does his own magic rather than learn Melf's acid arrows etc.

Gorion might have an advantage from being able to call on divine and arcane magic.

 

The thing you are all forgetting is that, if you attack and kill Gorion in Candlekeep (it can be done) you automatically die. Since you don't automatically die if Sarevok kills him, and neither does Sarevok, it seems clear to me that Gorion had some sort of ancient 'protection' on him that kills whatever manages to kill him, but Sarevok, being prepared, had some kind of protection from it (massive save vs. death? that spikey armor scared away the ancient power maybe?). This means that, if Firkraag kills Gorion, but his harper friends ressurect him, Firkraag then has to deal with the aforementioned ancient power which, even for a mighty and aged red dragon, could leave some nasty scars. Irenecus may be able to handle it, though.
I can't believe you all didn't see that before! Duh!

 

It could be an item's special ability. I remember that there's a CLUAble sword that can cast Magic Missile...

 

@ Aldeth:

The game manual gives the following levels:

Drizzt - Ranger (16)
Elminster - Mage (29)
Volothamp - Mage (5)
Bentley - Illusionist/Thief (10/10)
Gellana - Cleric (10)
Kelddath - Cleric (16)
Taerom - Fighter (5)
Tethtoril - Cleric (18)
Thalantyr - Mage (17)
Ulraunt - Mage (9)

Unfortunately, there is no mention of Gorion.

Going by this, Irenicus is the same level as Elminster himself!

As a side point, it makes you wonder what Tethtoril is doing wandering around with Firebead's Identify scroll when he can't actually use it.

 

RE: Tamoko
Yeah, I know how she does it, via script, but the question arises as to an explanation. (And as for the NPC mod, I'm not surprised they voted it out. A 1 damage Flame Arrow spell doesn't make for a good special ability. ) Something I'm surprised I hadn't thought of before is the 2nd-level PnP spell Produce Flame (something to suggest to the makers of the Tamoko mod if you really want her to have a special ability). It's like Melf's Minute Meteors, but much less powerful. You only get one attack per round for the duration of the spell (1rd./level), and the projectile only does 1d4+1 fire damage. Now, the in-game damage seems to preclude that spell, but perhaps Gorion cast a Prot-Fire spell beforehand, which would halve the damage. On a minimum damage roll, that would do it.

RE: Tethoril w/ Identify
He had it for study. He was probably interested in how arcane magic differed from divine magic and wanted a look. Maybe he was even thinking of dualling?

 

And as a result he wanted to study a simple spell (level 1), that would have no adverse consequences if he inadvertently cast it.

Then again, the questions comes would he even be able to read the scroll in the first place. IIRC, in PnP, to even be able to read a mage scroll, you had to cast the first level mage spell read magic. I don't remember if there was a comparable level 1 cleric spell, but I don't think there was.

Going back to my PnP days, I always hated my DM when it came to playing mages, which is probably why I don't play aracane casters to this day. He gave a first level mage one spell in his spellbook to start off: Read Magic. Then the jerk would actually make you roll the percentile dice when you actually found your first scroll to see if you successfully copied it in your spellbook. And scrolls weren't all that common. It was not unusual for you to have a 2nd level mage (obviously travelling in a party) that still only had Read Magic in his/her spellbook.

 

You're right about the last bit: Detect Magic is in both areas of magic, but Read Magic is arcane-only. However, the description of Read Magic mentions that personally written works (or previously 'read' articles) are intelligible. As such, Firebeard could possibly have written/read the scroll and then made a sort of deciphering key for it, to allow Tethoril to read it properly. I'm not sure if that would be allowable, so I suppose it would be up to the DM.

That's BS, plain and simple. The first spell any wizard learns is Cantrip; even Read Magic is a more complex spell. If you're creative, Cantrips can be used for any number of things, and a 1st-level mage with only Cantrip and Read Magic can actually be a boon to a starting party. And if he did that for specialists too, he's blatantly breaking the rules. You are required to have at least one spell per spell level of your specialty school in your spellbook, and have to memorize a spell from that school as your bonus spell (at each spell level). You simply can't not allow that.