1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Gripes (especially regarding sorcerers)

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights 2' started by Bombur, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    175
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    ^ The game defines it as "The character will not use any Artificial Intelligence", and I sure as hell hoped that would mean they're just standing there like the plastic mannequins that they look like. Alas.

    The AI is horrid. There's no other word to describe it. The party control is just as horrid. Whose idea was it to give you control of everyone, but not let you frame-select your party? I know, it's just KotOR's legacy that they didn't bother to modify. Half of the gameplay I struggle through battles, trying to prevent my characters from being slaughtered because there seems to be no reasonable logic in the commands.

    If I broadcast a stand your ground, the character who was in control during broadcast will follow as soon as I switch to someone else. So I leave the party behind, and lead my rogue to scout, then switch to my fighter for an ambush setup, and what? My rogue suddenly runs to the fighter! Great. Neurotically hitting spacebar to correct the situation.

    The only way to make sure that everyone follows is to broadcast a follow from every character, or click on everyone individually and tell them to follow. Idiotic. And why can't I click on my character to select them? KotOR's legacy.

    Turn the AI on, and the only thing they do is commit suicide as they drink all of my potions while executing their [bleep]ed up pathfinding scripts and collecting AoOs from everyone around.

    Attack nearest in NWN2 means not "Quickly help me deal with this one remaining enemy next to you", but "Hey, why don't you go attack the dozen guys standing half a mile away that we can barely see?" One more case of suicide by AI.

    Why am I impeded by this misconception of a battle system during my progress through a linear storyline? I have no idea.
     
  2. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    I'm sure they'll patch the AI (or I hope so anyway, because it can be annoying when Neeshka keeps trying to tank all nearby mobs on her own, instead of just hitting mine or Khelgar's target).

    Anyway, what's 'AoOs'?
     
  3. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    175
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    Attacks of Opportunity, what you get when you run around the enemy like an addled monkey instead of attacking them.
     
  4. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,415
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    Maybe I haven't played enough, but I haven't had any problem with characters running all over hell's half-acre. I haven't even modified the default behavior.

    I think the default is protect my main character and that seems to keep everyone close by...

    I haven't tried to keep people in one place while another scouts though, so that's probably part of it. The "track" ability has just about obviated that for me so far. I know where the monsters are before I can see them (even behind doors), and even though I don't know what they might be exactly, I have a pretty good idea based on where I am.
     
  5. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    Have you not been near some enemies, then had your party members run off to attack them when you didn't want them to? So you select the offending party member(s), only to have your main character go chasing after him? That's happened a few times to me. They also take it upon themselves to use your healing potions when they land themselves in the ****. Starting with your best ones, then working down to 'Cure Light Wounds'...

    It's a fun game, but can be a bit annoying (that's probably part of its charm, when an easy fight is made challenging because of party member behaviour :p )
     
  6. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,354
    Likes Received:
    99
    Bah. This game sounds terrible!
     
  7. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    175
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    For me the point is not to keep them close by ;)

    I'm trying to maximize the advantage of my two rogues' sneak attacks with bows, while luring the enemy into melee with the fighter, so I need to keep the rogues well out of reach.

    I guess if you play a ranger, you have less problems with fighting, thanks to high BAB and higher direct damage of weapons, but I try to make use of every arrow shot. In essence I spend the battles paused, since every round I need to pause, right click on every enemy to evaluate their HP, choose the most likely target to go down next, and attack it. Really missing NWN's Uninjured-Near Death highlights, but since this game is missing everything good that NWN had, I'm not even asking why or hoping it'll be fixed anymore.
     
  8. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,415
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually, I keep all the good stuff for myself, which is why I almost always have my main charater selected: I don't want him guzzling all the goodies :lol:

    Yeah, I miss that too. Even in the KoTORs the selected enemy had a health bar didn't they?
     
  9. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    175
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    Yep. You only had to put your mouse over any creature to see the healthbar.

    Here I rightclick, then the stupid context menu pops up. If I increase the delay it doesn't pop up fast enough to give out commands efficiently. Either way it's bad.
     
  10. Man_Solo Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    So far, i've found this game incredibly easy, in comparison to other DnD titles this is a walkthrough... so far. The K.O.T.O.R system has been implemented unsuitably, characters are basicly immortal as there is no permanent death, if for instance your in combat and your party is all but destroyed, simply save your game and reload and your party is magically revived, though they have little health, with characters like Qara all you need is a few seconds to mop up.I also find there is a lack of "epic" memorable battles, remember Kangaax, Irenicus and the Demogorgon? Remember frank Horrigan and the master? Remeber Sarevok? You bet your ass you rembember those guys, but so far no bosses of merit have been seen in this title.
     
  11. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    175
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    Heh, word up.

    Low on hitpoints? Walk ten feet away from the enemy and rest...
     
  12. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    Is anyone else annoyed by the lack of real freedom? You get one or two big quests at a time and can only really follow them and not do much else. There are very few operable doors in towns and cities (most of them locked and unpickable until you do this or that). You can't really speak to anyone but the main quest givers. Most shopkeepers seem to be outside (why? I don't understand that). I've run into 3 party members so far, who were pretty much foisted onto me (I had to take them as I had no other options). It's like the game developers wanted you to play 'this way' and don't give you much rope to do what you want and explore. I resent that really.
     
  13. catbert

    catbert Midnight Snack Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2004
    Messages:
    175
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    Mmm. It's a pretty straighforward singleplayer game where the linearity of the storyline is thinly veiled with fresh dialog. Once you realize that it makes very little difference what you say to people, the game starts to seem annoyingly restrictive (much more so than BG2 ever was for me). Side quests are next to none, the "travel" is limited to skipping from one small plot area to another one.

    Multiplayer future of it is really dim, so it loses on that count as well. Modders are nauseated by all the problems they foresee. The only thing apologists have to offer is: "The OC is good, and multiplayer doesn't matter anyways". In the shape that it is, maybe it could have the shelf life of KotOR, but heh, face it, it doesn't have lightsabers.
     
  14. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,354
    Likes Received:
    99
    Hmm, the comments are getting worse and worse. Maybe I won't ever bother getting it at all.
     
  15. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    What I like about other RPG's is the realism and freedom. If I'm walking past a building, I like to just pop in and see what's in there (forcing entry usually), snoop through people belongings and see if anything strikes my fancy. I've gotten increasingly frustrated in NWN2 when I hover my cursor over a door only for the pointer to stay the same. I can't go anywhere unless the game wants me to. It's so restricting. Even if I play this through to the end, I don't think I'll be playing it again. It's so NOT replayable because it's so restrictive. Once you've played it once, you've seen all it has to offer. Bit sad really.
     
  16. khaavern Gems: 14/31
    Latest gem: Chrysoberyl


    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hopefully we'll get user created modules at some point. One might hope even for improved Ai from the community. If it's as easy to script as the original NWN, that is.
     
  17. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    May 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,770
    Media:
    226
    Likes Received:
    236
    Gender:
    Male
    /Raises hand. I'm currently in NWN and working for the watch, and I must say that I'm finding the long string of "we need you to do this," followed by, "okay, now we need you to do this," repeated over and over, to be laborious. I guess it kind of captures the reality of what having a job can be like, but this doesn't seem like a prudent accomplishment for a game. Occasionally I'd like the flexibility to take a break from the main quest, but being that there aren't a lot of other options on what to do, I'm finding myself shutting down the game and doing other things with my time.

    This game certainly hasn't "hooked me in" the way that I expected it would. I'm not saying that I'm not enjoying it, because I am, but I'm not totally convinced that I'm going to make it through the entire OC, either. When I played BG1 and 2, IWD 1 and 2, PS:T and NWN/SoU/HotU, my biggest challenge was forcing myself to stop playing. With NWN2, thus far, I don't think I've missed a wink of sleep. In fairness, I'm a lot busier with family obligations and work than I was when I first played those other games, so that could have something to do with it as well.
     
  18. Man_Solo Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anyone else think that magic in general has been dumbed down, made worse even? I never recall
    Horrid wilting sucking so much, It used to be my disgusting cheat spell (A.W.P.) Now cone of cold is a better spell, or even call lightning! Because you can cast it indoors! Also for the love of everything that is unholy, bring back imprisonment! Just for me. Oh and shouldn't finger of death NOT kill undead, i killed me a few Baelnorns, using it. And shouldn't dark vision (I'm a drow) make you immune to darkness?

    [ November 13, 2006, 10:48: Message edited by: Man_Solo ]
     
  19. Bombur

    Bombur I'm always last and I don't like it

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. The settings seem to be such that you can either cause offensive spells never to damage your party, or always to damage your party. I don't know what 3.5 spell descriptions look like (and frankly I don't care what they look like), but I find it annoying that casting missle storm does more damage to my own party than to the bad guys.

    Area of effect spells should hurt my party, but some spells are supposed to target only enemies. I haven't found this to be the case with the spells I have been using. Set on normal, not only do the missles hit only the bad guys, but my party is immune to my fireballs. Set any higher, every spell hurts every person. I had to delete body of sun from Elanee's list of memorized spells so she would stop frying the party every time she tried to follow us into battle.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.