"Hardcore" playing sensibility

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Hail to Macready the Swashbuckler !
Your rules sound good to me; as for the love interest, I would go for Viconia. Aerie would sound better on the short-term (as long as Imoen is away), but thinking long-term Viconia is much better.
Happy to know you made it out of Irenicus' dungeon !
So what do you plan to do next ? Which quests are on Macready's list ?
Keep us posted !

 

Sounds intresting, but with all challenges, the start is the hardest, after a few (10-20) hours playing you should have mostly all negative saving throws, some resistances, capped your strength with belts\gauntlets have a massive amount of hp and low ac and should only die if you end up running into alot of enemys\do summat stupid or dont perpare for a major battle.

In saying that in my current game my Half-Orc Beserker hasnt died yet, but im having a rare powergaming session, he has some ace items and has 5 party members

Seeing as he has just reached TOB and I fancy a rest bite from him I think I shall have a go at this

 

Well, we haven’t heard from Macready lately, and I’m not sure if that’s a good sign (he’s too busy with the resounding success of his swashbuckler team) or a bad sign (he’s too depressed over its failure); here’s hoping for the former

Last night, I decided to give this hardcore thing a try. My approach draws from the ideas previously put forward. Speaking strictly for myself, since this is hardcore, I think I have to approach this more from a powergaming perspective. I created a 2 person multi-player party (core rules). No NPC’s allowed. Because I get to tailor-make 2 characters and roll stats for as long as I want, I am treating both as PC’s; in other words, if either one dies, its game over.

My party:
Main character – NG Elven Fighter/mage/thief. I know, this is one of the easiest classes to solo with, so what’s the big deal? Simple – it’s hardcore. Rolled pretty good HP’s. Will eventually have ** in long swords, maces and short bows, * in single weapon style. (On a side note, if I put a shield in his off-hand, do I still get the single weapon style critical hit bonus? Just curious.) Even though he’s the main char, he isn’t the main tank, because my second character is…
Ranger, dualled immediately to a cleric. Decent HP roll. Dual-wielding, obviously.

With this party, I have all the bases covered – thieving skills, mage spells eventually up to level 6, priest spells (cleric and druid), and tanks. With only 2 characters, I’ll level up pretty fast (until one of them gets killed, that is). General approach for most even moderately-difficult battles will be: draw upon holy might (available to both chars), haste, chaotic commands (once available, to protect against the various mind control spells), and other spells on an as-needed basis. I will be doing a lot of resting. These factors, along with the fact that I’m powergaming, is why I am being very unforgiving in terms of requiring that both characters stay alive.

I’ve just started the game; made it through level 1 of the dungeon with relative ease, and don’t expect any problem with the second level. It’s somewhat tricky only in the sense that my cleric is low-level and hasn’t regained his ranger abilities yet, and probably won’t until we’re out of the dungeon. Haven’t quite decided how I’m going to approach the rest of the game though; I’m not sure if I should force myself to do the more difficult side quests where I stand a good chance of dying (dragons, Kangaxx, Guarded Compound, Twisted Rune, etc.), or play it safe; one of the reasons I went with long swords instead of katanas is because I am inclined to go with the latter. Of course, if I die doing something stupid in one of the easier battles (and this is quite probable), then it’s moot anyway.

I’ll see how this goes. But I’m still hoping that Macready’s role-playing approach is successful

 

Hello -

I haven't had much time to play lately, so nothing substantive to report. He's mainly been exploring the city and racking up the easier experience and loot (I am not hesitating to draw upon my knowledge of the game in making choices about where to go).

My current goal is to save up enough gold to buy the hill giant belt, because I am still struggling a bit with to-hit issues, and I'm tired of connecting for 3 and 4 damage. Once that is in my possession, I'll start to get a little more ambitious. I already have two magical short swords from one of the random between-areas encounters, so my equipment is slowly coming together.

I plan to get several hours of playtime in tonight, so hopefully I'll have some progress to report later this week.

Same here. I have resolved not to force myself, but I of course recognize that victory is much more impressive with some or all of these quests completed. At the very least they are going to be delayed until I have gained quite a few levels.

 

Greetings and well met, welcome to SP! "May the ' calculator' be with you"

 

Glad to hear you’re still in the game!

Ditto

My feeling on this may be a bit different from yours since I’m powergaming and you are roleplaying, but for me, gold won’t be a problem. As soon as I’m out of the dungeon (assuming I make it that far ), I’m going to sell the 6 wands I got at the end of the dungeon to a vendor that I can steal from. With the help of a few master thievery potions, I’ll steal them back (they would then be worth a lot), and sell them to and steal them back from the 4 city fences (only once with each fence, though, and the last fence - probably Roger - keeps them). This should give me enough gold for most of the better items (including bonus merchants), especially the belt and Vecna. (Actually, I use this approach even when I’m roleplaying, unless my PC has a lawful alignment, since a lawfully-aligned PC would never allow stealing in his group . And if the PC or thief has a good alignment, I would make the original sale to a fence so I don't have to steal back from an innocent vendor.)

That’s my thinking too, if I decide to do them at all; I’ll probably want to be at or near the XP cap before I even consider it.

Looking forward to hearing about your progress. I’m actually hoping you survive longer than me just to prove that it isn’t necessary to powergame this thing

 

Have not had a chance to visit for a while
First of all, I would like to whish all the best to Splunge for his heroic undertaking.
Sooo, how well and how far did your efforts bring you sofar ?
I think both your approaches so far are quite well thought, and getting good equipment should be a priority. Keep us posted about your progresses !
Btw, do you have any mod installed ? Just curiosity.

 

@ Kralizek
Thanks for the wishes. But it appears that I am going to need more than that (such as a lobotomy) if I’m going to get anywhere here. Let me explain.

I made it through the 2nd level of the dungeon just fine. Feeling confident from my success so far , instead of getting my gold, I decided to make a quick detour to get Lilarcor. Why would I do that, you may ask, if I don’t have anyone using 2-handed swords? Because, for some stupid reason, I had it in my head that Lilarcor was a long sword (don’t ask why, since I’ve had it enough times before). Anyway, this isn’t so bad in and of itself, except that when I went down to the sewers under Copper Coronet, my F/M/T wasn’t doing any scouting, and I forgot about the enemies (hobgoblins, I think) that are there at the start, so I hadn’t made any advanced preparations. I underestimated the enemies' abilities, my Ranger/Cleric soon got held by one of the two mages, and my F/M/T didn’t have a dispel magic spell memorised. Fortunately, F/M/T was able to get off a haste spell and cleared everything out, leaving my R/C with a near-disastrous 6 HP’s. I am going to have to do alot better than this.

Anyway, with that nonsense (hopefully) behind me, I’ve got my gold, survived some minor battles (including the between-area ones), upgraded my equipment, and am in the process of doing the easier quests to build up my levels. I’ll let you know what happens once I actually do something important. This may take awhile, though, since I’m not going to have much time to play over the next few days.

BTW, no, I don’t have any mods. Just SOA, official patch and SP Fixpack.

 

@ Splunge
Glad you made it out of those sewers alive ! I have the feeling that early on it is better to avoid fights involving shamans and (yuan-ti) mages, as they seem all too fond on using holding and confusing spells.
Take your time, and good luck !

 

I figured I’d do a quick update here. I haven’t had a lot of time to play lately, and the situation probably won’t improve until next week. But first, a question:

I’ve been thinking about my uncertainty of whether I should skip the difficult side quests where I have a good chance of dying. It occurs to me that, if I am to get “bragging” rights here in the (extremely) unlikely event that I am successful, I might have to do these quests. The reason is that I am powergaming. Macready has basically taken a roleplaying approach, taking on a romance and Imoen; as such, he is treating the story as part of his game. Therefore, he does not have to take on any quest not directly related to the main story line. I, on the other hand, because I have taken mainly a powergaming approach, am essentially ignoring the story. Therefore, side quests are no more and no less important than the main quests, and thus the side quests should be done. However, an alternative view could be that, since I’m powergaming, my only objective should be to finish the game, and I could just forget about any quests that I don’t want to do, but I‘m not sure about that. Plus I have created a 2-person party which, in theory at least, I think is more powerful than Macready’s 1-person party (with limited NPC support), and therefore my party stands a better chance of going further than Macready’s. (This ignores the actual skill level of the player, and I find it hard to believe that anyone, Macready included, could be lower on the talent level than I am.) Does anyone have any views on this? (Not my skill level, but the other part. )

Now for my progress to date (such as it is). My R/C dual is at cleric level 11, and my F/M/T is 9/10/11. I have managed to avoid doing anything too stupid. In addition to what I previously reported, I have done the following:
- circus tent
- freed Haer'Dalis from the mage. I think I’ll wait awhile before I attempt the prison, though, since the battle right at the start is a bit tricky. But I want the boots of speed and Ajatha, so I’m not going to wait too long.
- Expose Mae’Var – done everything except actually killing him. I’ll wait awhile for this.
- Done De'Arnise Hold

Like I said, I haven’t got very far, but I’m being careful. Using a lot of hastes, stone/iron skins, spirit armour (for the save bonus), protection from evil 10’, draw upon holy might, chant, resist fear, etc. Probably overkill in many cases, but I’m playing it safe. Lots of resting (I’m not going to break any speed records here). Next will be Beastmaster, Unseeing Eye (yes, I will be using the Shield of Balduran), and Trademeet.

So Macready, how are you doing (and Mr Writer, if you are trying this)?

 

I would not consider anything that has a chance to keep you alive overkill ...

Concerning your question about the dangerous sidequests: if you manage to end the game, my guess is that you will have bragging rights anyway, so I would not worry about that. But, since you are taking a powergaming approach, I feel you should do them... just as late as possible.

keep up the good work Splunge!

 

Hello -

@Splunge:

I think if maintaining a powergamer's approach is important to you, then you definitely need to do the harder quests. No powergamer would let the accompanying rewards go unreaped.

As for me:

I've taken an about face. Macready the swashbuckler is alive and well at level 13, still doing Athkatla's more manageable low-level quests. No deaths as of yet. But I'm not really having much fun, mainly because I think I'm a little thief'ed out. I've played a lot of them.

So Macready the swashbuckler takes a back seat...to make way for Macready the human sorceror! I've always wanted to take a sorceror through the game, and I have to say that I am finding it to be very satisfying thus far.

He has 18s in DEX, INT, and WIS, with a 16 CON. I rolled awfully well on HPs again, getting 36 of a possible 42 upon creation, and rolling 6, 6, 5 on the next 3 level-ups to attain a very solid 53 HPs. I haven't located a Find Familiar scroll yet, but of course when I do that will boost the HPs even more.

Thus far, I've chosen these spells:

Lvl 1
Armor
Friends
Identify
Magic Missile
Spook

Lvl 2
Blur
Invisibility
Melf's Acid Arrow
Mirror Image
Resist Fear

Lvl 3
Fireball
Flame Arrow
Melf's Minute Meteors
Skull Trap

Lvl 4
Improved Invisibility
Minor Spell Sequencer
Stoneskin

Lvl 5
Lower Resistance
Sunfire

I know that Fireball isn't exactly end-game material, but I'm getting tons of use out of it in these early levels.

My approach is the same: rack up as much easy solo experience as possible. Since I'm not a thief, I'm only picking trapless venues. Once I've exhausted those, I plan to hire out Jan until I get Immie back. I'm undecided if this protagonist will have a romance, but if he does, it will be Viconia.

I'm well into lvl 11 and grinding forward, obviously with no deaths. I'll continue to report in as things progress.

[ August 27, 2003, 18:48: Message edited by: Macready ]

 

oooohhh, I wana try it....

What character should I choose, I can't make my mind up.

Someone make my mind up for me, its either:

Elven Archer
Dwarven Berserker
Half Elf Swashbuckler/ fighter multiclass (cheated SK)
Halfelf Avenger

I'll go solo as well (just my PC), or at least i'm planning too - how hard is it with a small party? I want to roleplay so the above multiclass is out I suppose, but I wanted to know what people thought of it.
Any help is appreciated, thanx

 

@Malovae:
Welcome to the party!
I'm not the one really qualified to answer your question here since I'm not roleplaying. When you say you want to solo, do you mean Macready's version, or "true" soloing (ie without NPC support)? If the latter, your choices listed are going to be really tough given that, except for the avenger, you have no magic to speak of. If the former, then it depends on what NPC's you are using and what their role would be.

@ Macready + Kralizek

It’s not that it’s important to me in the context of BG2 in general (I'm actually trying not to powergame in a "normal" game), but I just don’t think I have a hope in hell of getting this hardcore thing to work without it. Again, that’s just a reflection of my total lack of confidence in my own ability to roleplay this thing, and I hope you prove that powergaming isn’t necessary here.

My thoughts exactly. (Damn, I knew I should have gone with katanas )

Thanks for the encouragement, Kralizek!

@ Macready
From what I understand, a sorcerer is a good option for soloing (easier than a swashbuckler, anyway), so I think you’ve made a wise choice. Never having soloed a sorcerer, I can’t really comment on your spell selection (not that you asked), other than to say (and this is just me) that I would have taken chromatic orb instead of friends, and cast friends from a scroll when buying the expensive items (basically Vecna); but this of course pretty much requires using a level 4 spell slot on greater malison. However, as I said, that’s just me and my powergaming tendancies.
Here’s hoping for your continued success!
BTW, are you intending to do Twisted Rune for the Staff of Magi? (Just curious; I’m not suggesting you should.)

 

Hello -

@Splunge:

I switched to sorceror mainly on account of personal fun factor rather than solo viability, but regardless, I'd have to agree that a sorceror doesn't seem to need much help in a fight. In fact, group mates would often be more of a burden than a help (AE spells, having to worry about protecting them, etc.).

I am really enjoying this style of play. My thieves always made strategic withdrawals, retreated around corners to cloak, ran around in combat, and generally played like timid little mice. The sorcerer just shrugs when he sees danger, casts one or two protective spells appropriate to the situation, and then proceeds to blast his opponents to oblivion with almost total invulnerability. I can't wait until I pick up Protection From Magical Weapons in order to augment my ability to stand unharmed in the face of danger.

My approach to spellcasting is different: I tend to avoid the save-or-else spells, since they often amount to nothing more than a wasted round. I'm also playing with the fixed Chromatic Orb spell (Baldurdash -- it had some problem before -- ignoring magic resistance, I think), so that spell with its huge bonus to the saving throw is low on my list. I won't be taking Greater Malison either, since I won't be picking anything that would benefit from it except for the spells that allow a save for half damage, and in the case of those I'd rather use the Malison casting for another damage spell instead.

As for the Twisted Rune, I would have to be at *least* level 15 before I would even consider going in there. Maybe higher. That encounter could ruin my hardcore victory rather easily, so I won't even consider it until I am awfully powerful.

Continued luck to you as well!

 

@ Macready: welcome back ! Glad to know you are still going strong. Long live the mighty sorcerer !

@ Malovae: welcome aboard to you too. Let your choice be wise and the dices with you !

As for me, it starts to look like I am the only one here who does not want to take the challenge. Nothing is farther away from the truth. Sadly I am quite busy with my real life right now, so I don't have any time left to play. But rest assured that I will join the party as soon as possible.
Just make sure you are still around by then.
Hopefully over the weekend I will have the time to think about which approach to use. In the meantime, I whish all of you folks the best.

 

Ok, I went for the dwarven beserker:

Name - Gorimnir
Lawful Good
Dual Weilding Flails and Hammers.

Str - 16
Dex - 16
con - 19
int - 10
wis - 10
cha - 10

Had a couple of nasty run ins with vicious mephits but nothing I couldn't handle. I put aside my wish to roleplay and used Yoshimo to do the good old steal/sell technique and buy the girdle of hill giant str, then back to roleplay.

I did the circus tent quest got the influence ring and sold petty much everything I got so far except ring of prot and healing potions.
Next i'm going to do the lirlicor quest and the slavers, so keep ya fingers crossed

:edit: - i'm soloing with no npc's except for when I need a thief, and I'll take yoshi to spellhold as well

 

I was thinking about my question on whether I have to do all the quests since I am powergaming, and you know what suddenly strikes me as funny? Not only am I not roleplaying this thing, but I’m not even sure how I should roleplay a powergamer! How lame is that?!

Anyway, as it turns out, I think I may have overestimated how difficult this was going to be. Aside from that bit of stupidity at the start, I have had absolutely no problems. My R/C dual is at cleric level 14, and my F/M/T is 10/11/12. I have now finished the Skinner Murders, Unseeing Eye, Beastmaster, Trademeet, and killed Mae’Var and Mencar Pebblecrusher. I had to “cheat” a bit to finish Trademeet since I don’t have a Druid to fight Faldorn, so I used Cernd, and gave him every buff I had; no problems there fortunately, because I had extended my ‘no-death’ rule to him as well. I’ve also done Galvarey (Harper Hold); I had to take Jaheira to initiate the fight, but I kept her in the background. Seriously, this is a breeze right now, and it will probably get even easier until I hit the XP cap. I’m relying mainly on buffed-up melee attacks. My biggest concern is going to be guarding against becoming too cocky and making a dumb mistake.

Astral Prison is next, and then a lot of other Chapter 2 stuff (but I’ll probably hold off on dragon killing, Kangaxx, Guarded Compound, and Twisted Rune until Chapter 6, although I may consider taking on Kangaxx before Chapter 4). It's all going to have to wait until next week, though, since I'm going out of town for a few days. So much to do, so little time.

@ Kralizek - Glad to hear you’re going to give this a try. Good luck once you get started!

@Macready – It sounds like you’ve planned out your approach to your sorcerer very well, so I’m sure you’ll do fine.

@Malovae - given my comments above, you may not have as difficult a time with your berserker as I originally thought, but I think you're still going to have a tough time without magic. Good luck; it'll be interesting to hear how you make out!

 

I am happy to announce that I am ready to start my try. Following Macready's inspiration (way to go, by the way ! Keep up the good work !), I decided to take a class I never used in the game before: the monk. I always considered this class to be overpowerful, but it has some nice features which might just help hardcoring this game. I decided to roleplay this try, so here it is how it's going to be: this will be a Bhaalspawn saga, meaning the only NPC allowed is going to be Imoen. The one exception to the rule will be the fact that during chapters 2 and 3 I will take Nalia with me; ok, this is not really rp'ing, but the small noblewoman is nearly a clone of Imoen, so the balance of the party will not be upset. I will just take my glasses off and pretend I do not notice the difference. I anyway mean to breeze (well, kind of at least) through those early chapters and get to Spellhold quite soon.
My alignment is going to be lawful evil, the lawful constrained by the class. Evil because I have a feeling goody-two-shoes experience high mortality by poking their noses in the wrong places (and for free too ). The evil comes from the fact that my monk will look after himself first (a wise move, when it seems like everyone around you wants your one and only skin). This means I will freely use the "hit and run" tecnique as well. I will follow the rules which Macready stated, which means that my monk will be the only one dealing and receiving damage, the NPC is there only to buff me up, no spells on the opponents are allowed. Of course no cheese allowed (meaning game bugs and game engine exploitations; all the rest is game).

After Splunge's comments (congrats to you, after a closer look yours look like the ultimate party to me ! Prove me right please ) however I decided to try and spice things up. To add some difficulties I will roll the stats at character creation only three times and keep the best result. After that, it's game time.

So, I'll be off creating my monk. More to come as soon as I had a closer look at him. In the meanwhile, any comment is very welcome.
And please, do not whish me good luck: where I hail from it is thought to be a bad omen.

 

Time for a quick update.

Astral Prison – done. No problems
Umar Hills – done, but I’m leaving Temple Ruins until Chapter 6.
Planar Sphere – done. Had trouble against Tolgerias. I forgot about his Death Fog (or is it Cloudkill?). Didn’t have Zone of Sweet Air memorised (never do), and when he cast it, I didn’t notice at first how much damage I was taking (lots). I almost hung around too long before retreating back to the corridor where you first come in. Close call.
Free the Slaves (Slums) – done.
Windspear Hills – done, except for killing Firkraag, which I’m leaving for Chapter 6. Some difficulty against Samia etc., but nothing serious.

Currently my R/C dual is at cleric level 18, and my F/M/T is at 11/12/13. With my R/C now having 2 points in staves (at level 16), I think I’ll tackle Kangaxx (I want the ring) before I start Chapter 4. Ideally, I’d like to get to cleric level 19 first (at which point I get another -2 to THAC0), but I don’t know if there’s enough XP available before Chapter 4; it’s not essential anyway. I don’t care about the level of my F/M/T, since the R/C will be doing all the work with the Protection from Magic scroll and the Staff of Rynn.

So, other than Kangaxx and what I’m leaving until Chapter 6, Chapter 2 is done. So far, so good. However, I’m a lot more familiar with Chapter 2 than I am with subsequent chapters (I have started so many games and abandoned them for various reasons during Chapter 2 that I’ve lost track of them), so I expect to be caught unprepared more frequently than I have so far. Of course, I’ll be scouting ahead with my F/M/T, but that only helps to a certain degree, and a problem could be the result of not knowing which spells I should have memorised for which battles. I wouldn’t be surprised if my game ends shortly. Fortunately, I also have a “regular” game going where I had just started Chapter 6; I put it on hold to try this hardcore thing. If I get to Chapter 6 here, I’ll probably finish the other game first just to refresh my memory of what to expect.

@ Kralizek – pretty gutsy to go with a class you’ve never tried before. I’ve never tried a monk either, but my understanding is that you need to be careful in the early stages, since the monk is apparently fairly weak at first. So, I hope you die (well, you said we can’t wish you good luck; is this going too far the other way? ) BTW, good decision to use Imoen/Nalia; I think you’ll need the magic. Too bad you can’t use haste, though.

So, how is everybody else doing?