Help choosing class combos and feats

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Wait, what? Are there special quests for every kind of priest, and where are they detailed?

 

yet more friendly advice

Bloody hell!!! If I'd have known that, I'd have given my lawful neutral Ranger1/Monk1/DruidX a dreadmaster level a long time ago. It could even be useful for my deep gnome neutral evil Ranger1/Rogue2/Bard2/IllusionistX too, because deep gnomes start with a minimum of 5 WIS, combining it with 'that ring' and the dreadmaster bonuses would eventually give her 14 WIS, and a great will saving throw.
I forgot about the strength requirements of Light of Selune bows. Most of my party has maximized life stats, so it's irrelevant for me. But LoS also boosts the damage bonuses of bows, which makes them a bit more worthwhile to use. And many existing shields get a better AC. The AC4 you mentioned is even beaten by a HoF buckler (Sad Gohji's Cap AC6). Since I'm into dual-wielding and don't much care for the low-damage ranged attacks, I didn't use LoS enhanced items much.
Proteus, your new character is ok, but I'd drop the 2 paladin levels. Those minor bonuses you get are not worth wasting 2 levels on. The immunities are rarely needed, the aura of command didn't protect my old party from the dragon (just Remove Fear), and the hitpoints and extra attack bonus aren't worth being 2 levels behind in cleric. Paladin as a mix-in is good only for the saving throw bonuses, and your Eagle's Splendor idea will only give her 1 extra saving throw if you're lucky (13CHA is only a +1 modifier), and I can think of much better spells that use level 2 spell slots... I'd suggest you return to your old plan of a ranger1/monk1/clericX, you'll get the proficiencies and dual-wielding obviously. That's worth being 1 level behind in cleric.
About your paladin1/sorcX: giving this one Evasion is very important. He has a good reflex saving throw, and combining it with Evasion is practically the same as spell resistance. I recently thought of a similar character, a human ranger1/monk1/paladin1/sorcererX, dual wielding the normal and HoF Cera Sumat swords. This build is probably the cheesiest character ever imagined, since it has 2 layers of spell resistance, despite not being resistant originally. You make the error of thinking Evasion is less important if the reflex save is high, but that's what makes it more useful in the first place. Evasion is only good when you MAKE THE SAVE. It's all or nothing. Evasion is much better for this one than for your cleric, because clerics have a poor reflex save progression, that's probably their greatest weakess actually.
Old remark about weapon finesse: you're right AjaX, my own illusionist uses it too, I forgot that it works with dual wielding as well.

 

I dont agree about the Paladin 2/Monk 1/Cleric X character

The whole point of the character is to actually be able to do some good melee damage. Thus, she needs some more combat oriented classes, partly to provide weapon feats like great sword, but also to allow her to use the holy avenger.

Yes, the spells are important, but when shes Cleric 27/Monk 1/Paladin 2, it really wont matter. My other cleric and druid are at a high enough level now to take care of my divine casting needs anyway.

As for the Paladin 1/Sorcerer X, I would love to give him a level of monk, but I cant without incurring EXP penalties because he is an Aasimar. Only humans, half elves and wild elves could do such a build without experience penalties.

Errr, sorry for the misunderstanding, I never said high reflex saves makes evasion worthless, I completely agree. I just said that despite my sorcerers poor dex, he has extremely good saves because of his paladin level, and thus could be relied upon to make his reflex save (and thus evasion) even though his dex is so poor.

 

There are lots of weapons which do more damage than the paladin sword, and your sorcerer can use that anyway. For diffucult enemies, when you'd want to remove their protections, you should cast Mirror Image and send in your sorcerer to dispel him.
You're sacrificing two levels of your main casting class for very minor bonuses and the ability to use the sword, for the latter you only need 1 level, and even then I don't think it's worth it. A level ranger gives all the proficiencies, and dual wielding for your build which won't use armour, so it's the best option. BTW the Cera Sumat is only a greatsword if you have the relevant Ease-of-use component installed, I assume you have.
Like AjaX said, bastard swords and 2H-axes do more damage than greatswords, so those are the best options for your frontliners. Cera Sumat is specific-use, so just Tenser-Mirror Image your sorcerer for that. The most powerful enemy spellcasters have sky-high saving throws and huge spell resistance, so working spell strategies involve melee anyway.
My advice: Don't take 8CHA, and wait with the paladin levels untill you need one, and even then, think carefully if it's worthwhile.

Spoiler

I almost forgot to mention the +1STR +1WIS bonus paladins get from completing the Cera Sumat quest, it helps your combat and WIS advancement, but you only need one level for this.

On another matter, why don't you reimagine your characters? You dismiss the monk level for your sorcerer because it's an aasimar, but you can simply remember the experience value he has, and replace it with a character you make new, like a LG Human 16-18-18-3-3-18 ranger1/monk1/pal1/sorcX, and simply cheat him up to the level of your old character. There's no logical reason to feel attached to your current build, so if you see the benefits of reimagining it, you have the means to do so. It's a little work, but I've done this many times, this way I don't have to play an entire game with a mediocre character before trying to improve it.

And Shaman, the dreadmaster is the only cleric quest i know of.

 

I'm not against doing that, I just need to know what I want to change before I change it.

In the case of the Aasimar Paladin Sorcerer, there are good reasons for not changing him to a human paladin monk sorcerer. One is that its an extra spellcaster level dropped. If he was a cleric, it wouldnt be so important, because clerics can do more than just cast spells, namely bash enemies. But sorcerers are wholely defined by their spells, and thus I'm not sure whether I'd want to give up spellcasting power, which also comes from the +2 Chr tha Aasimars get.

I guess if he was a human, due to being a non ECL race he would probably gain the lost sorcerer level anyway.

As for the ranger level, I really dont see the point for someone that I dont want on the frontlines. A Ranger level is best suited to someone for someone who actually expects to do damage with weapons. With this guy, and his 8Str and 6Dex, I dont think that will be happening any time soon. I may give him a melee weapon of some sort and make him use expertise though.

Yeah, in the case of the Paladin Monk Cleric I would be sacrificing two levels of her main casting class, but as I said, its not important in the long run. First and foremost, this character is not my primary cleric. If she takes an extra level or two to boost her melee power, I consider it a worthwhile exchange. Secondly, her max cleric level will now be 27, which I think is still extremely high.

I'm using the 2H greatsword holy avenger - yeah they arent as good as axes, but it has other benefits too. Besides, although this is a powergaming party, it does have some roleplaying aspects to it, and one of them is that I'm quite fond of holy avengers. Also, being a 2H Greatsword means there is no use in the Ranger level.

 

Your aasimar gets 1 higher spell DC level, which matters of course. And if you took both a ranger and monk level, the human would actually be behind a level. You probably read this in JUPP, or was it UPP: But your human doesn't have to be 8STR 6DEX. If you concentrate your skillpoints on the minimum (always conc., 10spellcraft, diplomacy later on) requirements, you can dump you INT stat and get some decent life stats. So your sorcerer can take a punch, and even fight without needing buffs!!!
start with 16-18-18-3-3-18

Spoiler

your normal and HoF paladin rewards also give +2STR +2WIS

and you'll get a sorcerer with Evasion, dual-wielding paladin swords, fighting well when needed, able to withstand a few more hits, all for the cost of 1 spell DC.
Losing the weak elemental resistances of the aasimar is barely worth mentioning.



After finding out about this Dreadmaster of Bane quest, I'm seriously considering reimagining one of my 'versatile powergaming' party members:
My CN FDrow 18-15-16-5-15-11 bard5/tempusX should be redone, but lawful not chaotic, and as dreadmaster instead of battleguard. Too bad about the axe feats, but the new bonuses outweigh it. To quote an old post by acrux:

This could become my new enchanter-battlecleric, with some party-friendly crowd control to use on weak-willed enemies. With all the wisdom bonuses, tyrant's dictum, and GSF: Enchantment, you can barely notice I haven't maximized wisdom! He'll have an effective 24WIS with all rewards and items, and an enchantment spell DC of +12, wow.
The extra conversation skills help my bard a bit too.
I wasn't too happy with my battleguard's GSF:Transmutation anyway: I use Mass Heal much more often than Tremor, and my druid does Tremor much better anyway. I had read in some guide somewhere that tempus clerics benefit from transmutation feats, but I was sorely disappointed.
This build is much much better.

 

The problem is, being my diplomat, he requires at least 16 Int, because some dialog choices require high Int. Also, high int gives him more skillpoints to invest in talking skills, most of which are class skills for him.

He has 18 Int right now, if he were human I would give him 16 Int. I'm also not sure whether I should just keep him out of harms way - I've done okay so far. I'll consider it though, I really like having super high Chr, but it would also be nice to have evasion so I could fireball myself and not get hurt.

 

You seriously didn't know about the Dreadmaster quest bonus, coiny? o_O
And Proteus and coiny, call me old-fashioned, but melee with a Sorcerer? Why in heaven's name would you ever wanna do that? Hell, where would you even need it?
And yes, diplomats benefit from good INT.

 

The only use for a melee sorc is to allow him to use expertise and gain +5 to AC. Since they (generally) have pathetically low BAB, you arent losing much in the way of attacks but gain a fair bit of AC.

As for giving the Holy Avenger to a Paladin/Sorc, I really dont see the point. Thats what I have Paladin/Clerics for.

 

Umm you want the AC? Just put a dagger, or quarterstaff, or whatever melee weapon in his hand and activate Expertise, period. You're not gonna melee with him anyway.

 

Nope, I heard rumours, but it's not specified in any walkthrough. You had to have played a dreadmaster yourself to know the bonuses.
Why melee? Why not? In HoF there isn't an easy kill spell for every situation, so being able to melee helps a lot. All 6 of my party members are versatile, so even my sorceress can pitch in if I want her to. It gives an extra boost to Mordenkainen's (not damage bonus, only AB I think) etc. In a heavy battle, when my frontliners are near death, my sorceress can go in to finish off! I wouldn't have expected such a remark from you: weren't you the one who had 'untouchable' characters with arcane buffs?
My pal1/sorcX dual wields the paladin swords, and with HoF's +10 AB +10damage, her main hand attack is comparable to that of my frontliners.
And battles in IWD2 can get really scrappy, so when you haven't succeeded in keeping your spellcasters away from the frontlines, a strong sorceress can take care of the problem herself.
If you think it spoils the roleplaying charm, because the characters are stepping out of their class-defined roles, then that's your own self-imposed limitation.

 

Errr.... Thats pretty much what I said. I wouldnt hand the holy avenger to him.

 

Its true that occasionally monsters head towards your backliners, but that doesn't mean you need to resort to melee. Stuff like sleep, Chaos, Chromatic Orb, Symbol of Hopelessness, etc. work FAR better. If you really want your Sorcerer to fight, cast Mord's Sword. AFAIK, that thing is touch attack-based, as I have never missed an opponent when using it (and this was on a Sorc who had maybe 8 STR & similar DEX). You don't need a super BAB for it. Its not a matter of roleplaying really. I like specialized characters rather than versatile ones. Just a matter of taste...

 

My sorc w/Cera Sumat at level 30 had 4 attacks with +30/+25/+20/+15, no buffs, nothing. My frontliners had an average BAB of 30-35, so it's not bad to have as a backup.
None of the spells you named do anything to a Slayer Knight of Xvim, the best strategy against those really dangerous opponents is combat buffs like Executioner's Eyes, and summons. HoF gangs of Slayer Knights can hack through your summons too, so I sent them in first, to be targeted, and then everyone who didn't have a spell to cast pitched in.
For me, the only character that can use the dispelling Cera Sumat is my sorceress, and I'm very glad she can use it well.
Mordenkainen's mostly hits because it has a huge BAB by itself, but my sorceress' strength probably increases it, she attacks at +52/+47/etc. If you have 8STR it might just be possible that you miss sometimes.

 

If you let your Sorcerers get anywhere within reach of a Slayer Knight, you REALLY need to work on char control . I was referring to stuff like Hook Horrors, Warg Riders, Yuan Ti, etc. type coming from behind. Not wilfully attacking enemies that can chop you to itty bitty bits.
My suggestion if Slayer Knights reach a weak char is to cast Sanctuary or Invisibility on him and GHTFO. Elsewise you're toast.

 

I thought your chars were unhittable when properly buffed? You'll need to face them eventually, your strategy relies on keeping summons up front, then? When I send in summons, the knights all go after them, then my Mirror Imaged sorcerer can close in and help with chopping away at a knight. It's no different than my frontliners: if a knight decides to target a char, he quickly moves away, mostly the knight can't be bothered following, and goes back to attacking the summon. Otherwise he becomes the priority to kill. This is a dangerous strategy, but it works, and feels good when you pull it off. What do you do to defeat slayer knights then? Lower Resistance on every single one? They're immune/resistant/save against all spells I tried.

 

Hello, I said keep em away from WEAK chars, like your backline Sorcerer or something. My frontliners are a very far cry from weak, let me assure you!
As for strategy, HoF mode SLayer Knights are best beaten by melee, odd as it sounds. Very little magic bothers them (but Horrid Wilting does). I send in my frontliners, have a Big Death user chopping from afar, and Mord's Sword on my sorcerer. Eventually they fall. Sometimes I have a summon or two to keep it faster.

 

Actually that was a bad example, of course I use MSword against Slayer Knights, but there are plenty situations where debuffing your enemies with Cera Sumat is useful, and then I can send in my sorcerer. In forced combat sutuations it's sometimes difficult to keep magi from the frontlines, I'm thinking of Harshom, the river caves, the horde fortress and the Lost Followers. If you have to use Power Word: Reload every time your tactics fail, that's not very satisfying is it?
I see my party of 6 adventurers as all 6 warriors. But some have 95% specialized in arcane casting, and are less effective (about 60-70% of a dedicated warrior build), so the frontliners are 100% adapted to melee, to compensate. The surprising thing is that my clerics can still be like 90% effective in divine casting too. And my barbarian gets boosted by the clerics, so he's at 120% melee usefulness. My druid, when shapeshifted, even gets a 140% as a half-dragon.

 

Harshom, River caves, Horde's Fortress, and even Lost Followers can ALL be defeated without getting a single backline caster injured, and I've done it multiple times. Now HOW you do it is something that requires some tactical know-how. You need to be very clear as to character positioning and usage. Its very doable though, without any need of reload.