Homosexuality and Religion

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I never realised lawyers had such control over the hearts and minds of the masses.

Wait, experts on what?

I seriously doubt that.

WHAT IF?!

well, jeez, sorry for having a competing viewpoint. You guys have those people with the signs saying "GOD HATES FAGS", people like Pat Robertson and Jesus Camp, so don't take the "We're being bullied by homos and atheists!" line.

and consent cannot be obtained from a child.

The homos will have taken over!

What? The gay rights movement gained steam because homosexuals were joining it in droves since they were sick of being opressed by Christians. And face it, Christianity and it's brothers Islam and Judaism are basically the only religions that have anything against homosexuals.

Stop trying to compare homosexuals to pedophiles. It's just stupid.

 

First off, GOD DOES NOT HATE FAGS. God loves all his children. He has forbidden homosexuality, but that does not mean he hates those who chose to sin. Pat Robertson needs to actually read the bible.

Secondly, perspective on Homosexuality. It is on par with fornication and adultery. All three are not permitted in Religion. Homosexuality is not the worst of the three--they are all equal.

The Pedophile lobby is using the same basic play book that the gay lobby used to get where they are, and before long, some activist judge who doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected will give them a ruling or two, and we'll be debating the age of consent and the like. They will eventually tear down the laws forbidding their vice and the social taboos against it. You laugh now, but it will happen because people don't care...

 

i hardly doubt tht will ever happen. sorry but people do care, most people in the world either have children or plan to have children and the large majority dont want to see an adult having sex with thier child, so honestly i have no idea where your silly fear of homosexuals getting equal rights should lead to pedophils getting the same.
and that you find to adults having sex together as bad as an adult raping children, that i just find wierd

 

According to these guys he does.

 

I thought that homosexuality was an unforgivable sin?

 

Everything is forgivable, I believe. As long as you truely seek it.

 

According to Gideons New Testament homosexuality, rebuilding Jerico, Blasphemy and modifying the Bible are all unforgivable.

 

Surprise no-one has mentioned anything about "Pastor" Ted Haggard yet.

I have to admit, the name doesn't ring any bells to me, but if the news sources are anything to go by he's a fairly major character in the US.

President of the 30 Million strong, National Association of Evangelicals, and head of the 14,000 strong New Life Church in Colarado. Staunch opponent of Gay marriage, with links to the White house (Doesn't everyone?). The very pillar of society.

Or at least he was.

Ah, sweet justice.

 

Equester: But people in this forum have said that the desires of the majority doesn't justify oppressing a minority. And remember, I didn't say rape, I specified consent in these things.

Clixby: I expected this to ba an anti-Christian site. They do stretch the Bible to make it say what they want it to say. In the days of ancient Israel, homosexuality, fornication and adultery were all punishable by death. That was not mentioned anywhere on that page. Further, They mention pride. Pride hinders repentance. With no repentance, there can be no forgiveness.

Actually, the only sins which are unforgivable are denial of Christ after receiving a perfect witness (According to my faith, only 15 such men are alive today), and shedding of innocent blood. All other sins can be forgiven upon condition of repentance.

Didn't he recently come clean about committing adultery? Such confession is the first step to his own repentance.

 

gnarfling, a child cant by the law give consent.

and no just being the majority dosn't justify oppressing a minority. but its justified if that mainority commits acts that hurt others. lke pedophiles, rapist, thieves, murderes and mimes

you might as well argue that if we give homosexuals equal rights, we soon allow people to kill as they please.

 

Replace "come clean" with "get exposed / found out".

 

Did you miss my parenthetical about the fact that NAMBLA's numbers are dwindling? The "movement" to legalize pedophelia is actually getting smaller......due, in large part, to the fact that members of NAMBLA keep getting arrested for being pedophiles! NAMBLA is not getting bigger, isn't "gaining mainstream acceptance", and never will.

In our country, the measuring stick used for grown-ups has always been different than the one we use for children. The problem you have is that you see issues like homosexuality, etc, as moral issues. They are not. I think pedophilia is immoral.....but that isn't why I think it should be illegal. Lots of things I consider "immoral" are legal.......and should be. Pedophelia should be illegal because a minor is too young for "consent" (by virtue of being a minor) and, therefore, when a grown-up has sex with a minor, it is exploitation. Lots of things that are "immoral" are legal.....and should be. Just because something is immoral or unethical doesn't mean it should be illegal. There must be a victim for there to be a crime. That is why it is legal for two men to ****, but it isn't legal for someone to sleep with his niece/son/kid down the street/etc. These children are too young for consent. They are victims. Adults are not too young for consent. When two men or two women have sex, no one gets hurt. In other words, no victim, no crime.

 

That's going to get challenged by lobby groups that want to lower the age of consent. Eventually it will get whittled away.

Where have you been? High priced lawyers already help people get away with murder

But you guys keep telling me that moral and legal are separate things. The more the line between legal and moral sepeates, the more likely it becomes that what's legal will offend more and more people. I don't approve of pedophilia, but I know that sooner or later, they will get their rights if we don't stand up for morality. That will not happen suddenly, but it will happen gradually--if it hasn't happenned already. Has the Age of consent been reduced anywhere? If so, that's a win for those perverted scumbags. How long before you give them the rights they want?

You criticize me when I want lines drawn, but then when I bring up the problem that will eventually come--and has started, now you want lines drawn? You tell me I'm wrong, and that I have no right to impose my morals on others, but now you want to do just that when faced with the prospect of something worse? The only way I see to prevent this is to join together in a strong line to defend a traditional morality. Once you start eroding that stand, then any line is harder to establish later on...

 

Ted Haggard didn't sleep with a male prostitute because he was homosexual, its was his wifes fault

fellow evangelist Pastor mark Driscoll.

 

Rather a disengenuous place to cut my quote short, Gnarff. Yes. I do think that pedophilia is immoral....yet it is still not the reason I think it should be illegal. It seems that you are deliberately trying to make me look like a hippocrite for having a moral opinion. To reitterate.....my, yours, or even the president's moral viewpoint does not matter. The issue is a simple one. If there is no victim, there is no crime. I'm sorry if you find it offensive, but if the best example you have of where our "declining moral values" will lead us is as completely unsubstantiated and laughably** absurd as giving equal rights to homosexuals leading to pedophilia, then you either need to re-examine your position or hire a good therapist.

Where are these lobby groups, Gnarff? I actually went and checked, and the "groups" you are talking about just aren't there. A kook on a streetcorner does not a consensus make. (It's kinda like calling a 2% margin of victory a "mandate".)

**Frighteningly might actually be a better word, here. Remember, a great many people actually believe this hogwash.

[ November 08, 2006, 10:40: Message edited by: Drew ]

 

*points to Equester*

He's right. I fail to see how you compare homosexuality to pedophiles. The connection just doesn't seem to match. One has certain, clear negative effects. The other, the negative effects are based upon an ancient text and tradition - not solid grounds of negative descrimination.

 

I'm glad that God issued mandates on the important issues. The progenitor of life, of light, of existence apparently has nothing better to do than to make sure that genitalia is used according to proper operating procedures.

Homosexuality is not a moral issue. Tolerance of homosexuality will not lead to acceptance of pedophilia...Gnarf, please tell me you're joking or exaggerating to make some related point.

It's interesting, 376 posts on this subject and where are we? I've read most of the posts and know that Gnarff and NOG, for two, aren't ready to edit the bible to allow men like Haggard to swordfight in peace and I still don't understand why God is so concerned with my genitalia.

 

To my beliefs, all consenting sexual sin (fornication, adulterty, homosexuality) regardless of age involved, is reprehensible. I'm not talking about some pervert that rapes children, but those that lure underage kids for consenting sexual activity. Yes, it is reprehensible, but you have told me repeatedly that morality is not grounds for structuring the laws. Sooner or later, some governments will grant them some allowances.

I wish I was, but this is my observation. Pedophiles use many of the same arguements that homosexuals used to get where they are and where they want to be. How long before they get what they want?

First, we don't have such authority. No mortal living today has such authority. There are some that have authority to add, but only specific religions will recognize this.

Second, God is viewed as a father, and as such, is interested that his directives are followed. Those of you with kids can relate to that, can't you?

Third, we would leave them to their sins as long as they keep them out of our face and stop trying to attack that which we consider sacred...

 

I LOVE slippery-slope arguments! Homosexuality being accepted will lead to pedophilia being legalised ! I have no evidence to prove this, but they're pretty much the same in my mind, so the arguments of one should work perfectly for the other! I am a savvy debater!

 

ok, i realise i am jumping on this topic really late, but here's my opinion on the subject:

i personally do not think there's anything 'wrong' with homosexuality. It isn't a choice whether or not you're gay (with a few rare exceptions).
That being said, if a certain religious sect wants to impliment discrimination, and finds some grounds within their doctrine to do so, then there's really nothing anyone can do about it. While I personally find it highly distasteful that a church would kick out one of their members for sexual orientation, I cannot tell them that they HAVE to accept homosexuals either. It's a free country, right?

For me, the problem arises when someone tries to ban gay mairriage. That brings up the whole separation of church and state issue. I don't think goverment has any right to say that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to marry, it is up to the churches. And after all, if a homosexual couple wants to get married, there are churches that do it.

To say that it should be illegal for gay people to get married is FREEDOM-HATING! I don't understand how so many right wing conservatives who tout their love of american freedom can in reality hate freedom so much? (because that's what it is). Does anyone else find this just a tad bit ironic?

um, yeah... its not about how homosexuals get where they want or how pedophiles get where they want. Its about the core issues here: homosexuality, and podophelia. While they may both be unnacceptable to you, you have to try and see what their effects are in the real world. Pedophelia= usually harmful to the victim. Note that there IS a victim. Potential of causing exetreme trauma and phychological damage to the victim. Most of the time there is no consent.
Homosexuality= sexual activity between consenting people. Does not cause trauma and psychological damage, no victim. Do you see where i'm getting at?
It is my personal belief that people should be free to do what they want as long as it does not conflict with someone else's ability to be free to do what they want. Spoken of course by someone who is planning to register as a libertarian

Ok... i will ask you this, who attacked first? Who is doing the majority of the attacking?
From what I can see, most gay people are exactly the opposite. They just want to be able to live their lives withought being attacked and judged by other people...

[ November 11, 2006, 12:07: Message edited by: Phone_Tools ]