Homosexuality and Religion

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Just as with the use of stem cells, gay marriage will come to pass...and probably sooner than later.

I read an article about Haggard, the outed evangelical leader, which said that he is not gay. No, he is a straight man who was targeted by Satan and led into homosexuality. Is this the way all christians see the issue? Do you believe that there are no homosexuals - only straight people who choose to have sinful relations with those of the same sex?

 

That's not right either. Those who are good at what they do in regards to religion are truly called of God, and blessed to enable them to reach out to those in their charge. I don't think it's right for someone to be able to pay a fee and get a liscence to perform a wedding ceremony. Maybe that's just personal though. Something that sacred should be special...

So not seeking out gays for harrassment. Done. I've stated that a person's sins are not my business. These are things I don't really want to know.

We present our views (repeatedly), but we ultimately know that we can't prevent people from sinning.

Not sure there. Some of the people here seem more than interested in a fight. I will oppose militant Gay Rights activists. But fighting doesn't solve the problems. Some groups on both sides are more interested in getting their own way...

Seperation of Church and state. Gay rights is a state problem. If they can't/won't accommodate the gays and protect the freedom of religion, then they ought to be turfed in favour of someone who can/will.

Love is stronger. But we need to stop seeing this as us against them and find a way to co-exist. Ultimately any solution will leave the religious zealots (like the ones behind the God Hates Fags site posted earlier) rolling their eyes, and militant Gay Rights activists unsatisfied...

Okay, let's look at the problem. In a same sex relationship, many partners make the same sacrifices as a legally and lawfully married straight couple (or an unmarried straight couple that lives together for that matter). Some of the legal aspects that accommodate marriage can (and the supreme court of Ontario has said must) extend to gay couples. That should be the first place to start...

Then they need to pursue this through state means and not drag religion into this. The rights they seek are granted through the framework in state made laws, not the religious ordinance itself. If they change "Gay Marriage" to "Civil Unions" they would not offend most of the religious folk out there. Stick to their objective without starting side wars please.

I will never accept that Homosexuality is moraly acceptable, but I'm trying to get closer to the actual beefs here.

Basically yes. We are not born gay, but we are subject to temptation by Satan. We are all subject to some form of temptation, but not all the same. For some it's drugs, for some it's immoral sex acts (and what they find tempting in that category is also variable--nuff said--please?). In some cases, these temptations are so strong, that people believe that they cannot resist them (again, more of the lies that Satan tells them to get them to give in).

What Haggard's story tells us is that it is possible to fall prey to these temptations, regardless of what they do for a living. It warns us that we must be constantly on our guard lest we fall into such temptation. It sounds like now that he's been "outed", he's coming clean and talking about what he did, which is also a good example of repentance. To come clean about what you've done wrong to those you've wronged is the first step.

I wonder if Haggard didn't preach a little harder against homosexuality in hopes of keeping others from falling prey to the same temptations, and hated himself for what he was doing?

 

It seems every time I'm on this thread there is always an advertisement for a homosexual refuge or a survey based on homosexuality... I admit the first time I saw one it was funny, but since then...

 

I sincerely beg to differ. Being gay is not a matter of temptation, and it is certainly not all frolicking and sex. Being gay is a very difficult way of life that is NOT chosen by the individual. In fact many gay people fight their own sexuality very vehemently trying to deny to themselves that it could possibly be true. These people always end up very depressed and I have seen more than one commit suicide. If you think they do this out of choice or temptation then you need your head examined.

@Chicken; The google ads are always relevant to the topic.

 

But that IS what they call it, isn't it? That's what I always hear it called. A gay couple I know are having a civil union, and that's what they're calling it. I still don't see a problem here.

 

We are not born straight either, we spend our early years developing who and what we are. Actually I think we are constantly changing. As Muhammad Ali once said "A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life."

 

To be honest, I don't understand how someone can get away with saying something like this and not get reprimanded. It just shows how nasty and completely out-dated this religion is...

 

Because there are also many non-religious people who think that you can become gay instead of being born that way.

 

Of course you can become gay. Just like if you're gay, you can become straight. Or bi-sexual. None of them are right and wrong, provided with it's with a consenting adult.

It's the general intolerance of homosexuality, comparison to paeodphilia and calling it a thing of 'satan' which I was talking about.

 

That's true. I was gay, then I was bi, now I am pretty much hetero. I found the person of my dreams, and she just happened to be a woman...

 

You should not generalise in this way. People who can do this are bi-sexual to start with. Many gay people would give a limb to be straight and fit in, but unfortunately it is not so easy for everyone.

 

I don't know a single gay person who wishes they were straight.

 

Why does Satan want to turn everybody gay? What could he possibly achieve by that?

 

Barmy, what part of that did you find worthy of a reprimand? Was it the part where he said he believed homosexuality was a sin people get tempted into? Was it the part where he said that it is the same as people being tempted into drug use? If you think Gnarff deserved a reprimand for that, you may want to revise some of your own posts.

 

So you find comparing homosexuality to paedophilia acceptable? It's a completely homophobic attitude and I was under the impression that any intolerances were against forum rules. I don't care whether it' a religious view or not, it's still an intolerant one.

Sorry, I've thought back and I can't remember a time when I've shared homophobic views with anyone here. Or any intolerances at all for that matter (excepting religious intolerance, which a lot would agree is justified).

 

I do believe that it is very shaky ground to go around comparing homosexuals (who do no harm to anybody) with criminals (who harm other people).

 

I think we're all born autosexuals. It doesn't really matter of which gender you're rubbing against, you're rubbing yourself in the end.

Some people have learned to get their satisfaction by rubbing their egos. Makes it feel good to polish your ego real bright on the basis of almost anything, if it only makes the distinction that you're better than them. "I'm of The Faith! Look at my ego shine! I'm a heterosexual, I am living the norm by which other people will be judged and condemned!"

I find the distinction between sexualities supercilious and superficial. It is a construct of the human mind, built to make distinctions between people.

If you want to make up a story and define yourself by it, you make it real to yourself by living up to this story of sexualities, but you might as well give it up. But if it makes you happy and no one else suffer, then fine by me. Some people just want to bend others under their will, under the will of their god, and this brings a lot of unnecessary suffering.

 

I do. It's not as easy being gay as many people think.

 

Wow. I don't know what the means exactly, but it sounds REALLY profound. I'll have to remember to drop that line into conversation so people will know how sophisticated I am.