Homosexuality

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I agree 100% with Ragusa...and please don't anyone come and tell me what a horrible closed-minded person I am; I dont want to hear it!

 

Well, you are, so there.

I've said it before in another thread...live and let live. Btw..that link with the bible stories, is by far the lamset thing i've seen in a long time. I thought Jesus was all about tolerance, equality, and love thy neighbour and stuff ?

 

I agree that homosexuality is 'abnormal'. But so is deafness, but nobody says that that a deaf person should be banned from being a parent (even though deafness would impact their ability to be a parent) or from marrying the partner of their choice.

 

They should be able to marry; I can't see any reason why not. Of course, reason and faith are different things, and you can't force a faith to accept homosexual marriages. This creates a problem for some, I realise, but I see no real difference between secular and religious ceremonies except for what is invested in it (as an institution) by the people who follow that faith.

Adoption, I'm not sure what I think. I know there's no reason not to believe that gay parents will be any better or worse than hetero parents, but I just have an uneasy feeling on this issue. Anyone can be a good or bad parent and short of testing people before letting them have children, we'll never get around that; my concern is more for the kid's mental health than anything else as they grow up and become aware that their lived reality is not "normal" (in the majority sense). Undecided as yet on adoption.

Arabwel, you've hit the nail on the head. As much as the issue of whether gay men and lesbians should be able to marry is about morals and denominational attitudes, we shouldn't ignore the monetary side of things in the development of marriage laws.

Yes, I know I'm flip-flopping a little, but my views have changed somewhat.

 

I think it is hypocritical to ban homosexual couples from raising children. If you did that, you'd have to ban so many other groups as well. What about solo parents (oh no! the child might grow up thinking all kids only have one parent!), divorced parents (oh no! the child might think marriage is just a myth), drunks, gamblers, fans of rap music, and people with speeding fines. While you're at it, you'd better ban all foreigners from having kids too (we all know foreigners have no clue).

Why not just make it easy and ban everyone from being parents who is at all different from yourself? Then we can all live in a happy fantasy bubble-land where everybody is exactly the same and we all feel safe and comfortable and nothing can hurt us.....

 

@ Pac man, the bible says you can sell your children into slavery and stone people to death, not to mention the whole Crusades thing, a bit off topic there but oh well.


I think they should have all the rights of "normal" people, I mean after all, we have no problem with different races getting married or adopting, or other religions for that matter, why not people with a different sexual preferance?

 

Good points, HB. The key issue (as I see it) is that gay male couples have no legal or biological way of bringing a child into the world, and therefore is not just a matter of choice. It is hypocritical to ban people from adoption just on one aspect of their humanity, but everybody else on your list can have kids without legal intervention.

...but dammit, people who have speeding fines raise kids who get speeding fines! It's a DISGRACE!

(ahem)

I didn't say I had a rational unease about it, though - it's just a gut thing. And as I said, anyone can be a bad parent, no matter their sexual orientation. But until attitudes of bigotry or heteromania are less strident, no matter how nurturing and loving an environment the kids are raised in, they will cop it as they grow up. They might be bludgeoned into feeling ashamed of who they are, of who their family are. I know that's not fair, but I can't shake that feeling.

Maybe I'm taking this too personally, but I've had too many friends and relatives commit suicide or have clinical depression to wish that on anyone or their families. I don't see this as a clear-cut issue, and while I don't think there should be any reason why not, social reality doesn't care what I believe.

 

Pac-man,
I'm being reminded daily as I work in a gay company and as one of my flatmates is lesbian - that godless wench is studying ... ironically theology and is atm in Jerusalem for bible studies.

You remind me of a co-worker, who, when I mentioned that I have a girlfriend, only replied that I just hadn't seen the light yet. And that I maybe just didn't like HIM. Well, whatever

... as for my alleged cynicism -- the whole debate here is so utterly pointless, predictable and repetitive ...

[ October 27, 2004, 04:29: Message edited by: Ragusa ]

 

Yes, it would certainly be tougher to be a child of same-sex parents and my preferred family structure is definitely one with a Mother and a Father.

But I don't think that's a good enough reason to ban them as parents.

Life would also be tough for a kid who's Mum was a famous topless model (think of hassles he'd get at school) but we don't ban Jordan from being a mother.

 

Homosexuals could always avoid the problem by simply marrying ANOTHER homosexual (i.e. homosexual man marries homosexual woman) just to adopt a child. They adopt the child then divorce and go off to live with their same sex partner while the child goes with the family that agreed upon having the child at the start.

Can a single person adopt a child?

 

"whole Crusades thing, a bit off topic there but oh well." I don't think the bible promoted this. It was just as corrupt as the current war we are involved in. People wanted to conquer foreign lands and just twisted a few sentences to drum up support - just like today come to think of it! Its amazing how little changes.

 

Jesus was one with Father who said clearly "thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind". Refer to Ragusa's link for more quotes.
Equality has been covered as well - homosexuals are equal.

A homosexual can still be a good parent, granted. However, a homosexual couple is not the same as a mother and a father.

What is her opinion on the Bible prohibiting gay intercourse (thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind) and counting it amongst blasphemies (fornicators... effeminate... shall not inherit the Kingdom of God), I'm curious?

 

the bible is full of commandments and stuff, but how many truly follows them now?

it states on many levels that you should kill a lot of people but it also says, Thou Shalt Not Kill. for instance, how many poeple smashes their sons heads in a stone, just because he's rebellous? it's a crime to kill, both biblically and otherwise, but the bible says on many occasions to kill many pepole, like the godless for instance.
and how many of us follows ALL the commandments, christian or not?

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son... bring him unto the elders of the city... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt you put evil away from among you!"

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

how many does THIS anymore??? can't think of many

 

That was the old testament. Jesus had died for our sins and to show God how hard life is for mortals - thats why he endured all the torture.

Another reason why the new testament is much kinder than the old. Thats why Jesus saved the woman commited of adultry from being stoned to death "Let him who has not sinned cast the first stone". Therefore do not judge people unless you yourself are perfect.

 

There's one thing that escapes you. This passage is Law. Law is not even so much tenets of faith as religion-based law for the nation of Israel. This particular passage is an instance of death penalty. Numerous other passages are either Law or references to war against the enemies of Israel. In war, you kill or get killed, simple as it is.

But how do you imagine homosexual intercourse being justified or required by the situation? Is it wrong unless the man is really hot? Is it wrong unless you really want it so much you can't resist? Sorry, that doesn't work. Perhaps adultery is bad unless your friend's wife has great legs? Please...

So who's sinning - the Bible?

So, should we make exceptions for things we like or things that are trendy?

 

Regarding Ragusa's 'chick.com' website from earlier in this topic:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1053/1053_01.asp

This site is full of lies and hate. The above suggests that Halloween comes from Old England and that Saman is the Lord of Death.

Halloween comes from the Scottish word 'Hal'oween' which means Hallows Eve. Hal'oween comes from Scottish folklore shared with Irish folklore. Its called 'Samhain' not 'Saman' and is the 'fire festival' not 'lord of death'. Yes its a pagan celebration of when the barrier separating the spirit world and our world is at its weakest point.

So my advise is do not beleive everything you read on the internet. If you continue to explore Ragusa's chick.com site you will see that playing Dungeons and Dragons is wrong and that Harry Potter is the devil himself. I thought most Christians would take pity on orphans.

 

Eh, that site is an obvious exaggeration. It surprises me that not everyone realises that. But the quotes are real.

 

I thought the gay movement already had plenty of tv airtime. Whats next "Sheep Eye for the Farm Guy"

 

I think the following explains my complete disregard for any argument on Homosexuality using the Bible as a basis.

 

That was very funny but the new testament puts an end to old traditions.