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How much do you like Trump?

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Dice, Nov 12, 2020.

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On a scale of 1 - 10 how much do you like Trump. 1 - Hate, 10-Love

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  1. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I'm not believing Trump, I'm believing the evidence presented. I don't want to go into too much of it because there is so much of it and so many states that it gets confusing and I don't want to spend the time to look it all up again since it doesn't matter at this point. But I think it was Pennsylvania that was the most egregious.

    Election laws can only be changed by the legislature, yet the Pennsylvania Governor and the Pennsylvania Supreme Court changed the laws regardless. I believe it was a man running for the state Congress that brought a suit objecting to the lawlessness before the election was held and the Pennsylvania Supreme Court threw out his case due to his lack of standing (i.e. he was not directly harmed yet). He then brought the suit after he lost the election and the Pennsylvania Supreme Court threw out his case due to the laches doctrine (i.e. it is too late now). So he can't object before the election and he can't object after; no redress at all available to him.

    Then Texas and other states brought the matter to the US Supreme Court and they declined to hear it even though the US Supreme Court is the original jurisdiction for state to state lawsuits and the only place states can get redress for wrongs of another state.

    Edit: Note I'm not saying things would necessarily have ended up differently if the laws were followed as they should have been; there's simply no way to know. But the Democrats certainly rigged things in their favor, not to mention the mainstream media.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jan 7, 2021
    #61

  2. Shadowcouncil Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril

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    So, how could the Dems change these things in these states that where ruled by Republicans?

    I suppose the Democrats did benefit from some of the changes but the fact that the changes where made was probably because people, Republicans as well, saw that during this pandemic, those changes where necessary. At is was done the legal way, that’s why courts refuse to do anything with it. And the situation is that every legal vote has been counted and the outcome is: Biden won. After recounts, going to court and even to a rather conservative Supreme Court, that is still the situation so the only possible thing to do in a democracy is to aknowlegde the results, congratulate the winner, finish the job and prepare the transition of power.
     
    Shadowcouncil, Jan 7, 2021
    #62
  3. Dice

    Dice ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    Well said Shadow.

    I'm sorry for your viewpioint, BTA. I understand that faith in the "good" republican party and hate of the "evil" democrat party is something you truly believe, right down to your bones.
     
    Dice, Jan 7, 2021
    #63

  4. Shadowcouncil Gems: 29/31
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    I saw Pence acting last night in a very respectful way (even after being told by Trump he didn’t have enough courage.)

    That’s what the Republican Party can / should be again. Not about a person who thinks he’s the best president ever but about the constitution and the country.

    And finally, there are some signs that people in the Republican Party realise they are better of without Trump as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
    Shadowcouncil, Jan 7, 2021
    #64
  5. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    The changes to the laws were NOT done the legal way; they were clear violations. The legal way would have been through the Pennsylvania legislature. Now yes I have no argument that all the legalities as far as the challenges were followed, but I'm sure how you can see how the aggrieved party received no satisfaction from the court system: A clear violation of the law was never allowed to be heard in court due to legal technicalities.

    The same kind of thing happens here in California all the time; the Government itself decides to violate the laws and there is nothing anyone can do about it and the lawbreakers are never held accountable.

    I have no idea what you're talking about. Neither the Republican party or the Democrat party is "good" in my opinion. :)
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jan 8, 2021
    #65
  6. Dice

    Dice ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    Well you certainly have a hate-on for Democrats. Sounds exactly like the stuff that's been coming out of Trumps mouth. Legal technicalities or not - the people have spoken and they don't want Trump in power any more.
     
    Dice, Jan 8, 2021
    #66
  7. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Please. All I have ever done here is give facts and logic and you just don't like them.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jan 8, 2021
    #67
  8. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I might have given Trump some slack for trying to dispute the results of the election on legal grounds.

    But inciting mass riots because he can't accept the loss of power?

    In complete seriousness, I'd expect that sort of thing as a lead up to the last days of the Weimar republic or coups in Latin American countries. Inciting riots because you want to hold onto political power, and won't accept the results of an election, that's the antithesis of democracy.

    I'm not being facetious when I say that either. Very often the reason why riots like this are a prelude to the end of democracy for a country is that the people instigating them haven't yet garnered enough power to force the coup then and there, and have to make due with a relative half-measure like a riot.

    Now is America in immediate danger of ending democracy? I doubt it. But things like that don't happen overnight, but in degrees.

    Trump really needs to be taken to task for this.
     
    Beren, Jan 8, 2021
    #68
    Dice likes this.
  9. Dice

    Dice ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    I agree with most of what you said however he deserves no slack on this matter either. How many billions of dollars in tax payers money went into funding those baseless disputes? As well, we are still fighting a pandemic that Trump has repeatedly down-played and encouraged false information about. Those billions of dollars he wasted for his own cause could have been used to help a lot of people who have suffered because of Covid-19.
     
    Dice, Jan 8, 2021
    #69
  10. Merlanni

    Merlanni Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    And the show just goes on. From across the point we are watching this black comedy for years now. Was this the grand final, or is more yet to come, stay tuned in....

    I am looking at my own king and his normal sane family.
     
    Merlanni, Jan 9, 2021
    #70
  11. Dice

    Dice ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    Would this be an example of your facts and logic? Granted at the end you said you're open to being wrong but I don't ever remember seeing you actually admit you were wrong.
     
    Dice, Jan 10, 2021
    #71
  12. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Sorry, I thought we were talking about the fact that the election was rigged in the battleground states.

    And as to that quote, I wasn't wrong; he is leaving.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jan 11, 2021
    #72
  13. Dice

    Dice ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    That quote was your response - several weeks ago - to the idea that Trump would not be leaving peacefully when the time came. As we speak, Democrats and some Republicans are pushing to have him impeached if the vice president doesn't force him out with constitutional authority. Trump is not leaving willingly.
     
    Dice, Jan 11, 2021
    #73
  14. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Yes he is, and has said that he will begin the transition. He is President until Jan 20th.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jan 12, 2021
    #74
  15. Dice

    Dice ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    OMG BTA - If you're referring to the bullshite speech he gave condemning the rioters, you know as well as I do that he neither wrote that speech nor is complying with it.
     
    Dice, Jan 12, 2021
    #75
  16. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Beren, Jan 12, 2021
    #76
  17. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I seriously don't understand you. What difference would it make for any legal proceeding to legally remove Trump if he's planning to try to stay illegally? Seriously, it makes no sense. He is going to be gone Jan 20th voluntarily.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jan 12, 2021
    #77
  18. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    BTA, he literally spurred on an angry mob and pointed them at the Capitol building. That's not leaving peacefully in my book.
     
    dmc, Jan 12, 2021
    #78
  19. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Heh. I don't agree with your characterization, though I agree that it ended up horrifically. I don't even think Trump in hindsight thinks it was a good idea.

    Do you really think he is going to refuse to leave Jan 20th? I just said he will leave and not have to be dragged out.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jan 12, 2021
    #79
  20. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    He tried to foment an insurrection and has been reported to have watched the television coverage with glee. I guess we just have a different idea of what it means to leave peacefully.
     
    dmc, Jan 12, 2021
    #80
    Dice and Taluntain like this.
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