How powerful is Elminster?

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I do not doubt that Elminster could take out Demogorgon. Even if Demogorgon gathers his troops and allies, they are not sure to include any Demon Princess, as any chance to get rid of a competitor is a good chance. Most of his servants obey him out of fear and if Demogorgon was to show weakness or even begin loosing, I'm sure many of his followers would go for the nearest exit.

Elminster on the other hand could gather the Seven Sisters, several other archmages and the Harpers of course. Should the battle fare badly, he would gain help from Mystra and so he would definately win.

One on one? Sure, Demogorgon would drop.

 

One on one Demogorgon would drop in a half a second. El would realise that this isn't someone you play around with and instantly use Silver Fire. Demogorgon would be incinerated on the spot.

 

Well Elminster does have to consider the lives of his friends though. Not nearly all of the chosen could manage to go up against something such as Demogorgon and hope to survive for long. And don't count on Mystra being there to resurrect them all every time.

Don't read on if you haven't played BG2:ToB

*****SPOILER*****







Am I the only one who found it amusing that just around doing the Drow / Abazigal strongholds when Elminster appeared, he actually said that even he wouldn't dare to cross your paths any longer?

Obviously the spells you have in the game are few compared to what really should be available, but considering what Elminster can do in the various books with mere thought, I think it's fair to assume he could still wipe your party out entirely at that point. Especially should he use his god-gifts (like the silver fire). Of course this says nothing of his assumed strength against Demogorgon since the game can't be compared to the actual real strengths of these characters. But you did manage to beat Demogorgon fairly easily before this, even in Ascension.

 

I do not think that Elminster actually meant that he could not defeat you, I think he meant that he does not dare to get involved with the entire bhaalspawn mess. His involvement might get other parties involved (such as red wizard and zhentarim) too and create a huge mess. Besides it's not like Elminster to get so much involved in things anymore, he may council and offer information but will not get directly involved in others affairs.

 

Considering Elminster is a chosen of Mystra, basically doing her bidding in everything, while it was said that AO himself forbade the gods from interrupting in the whole Bhaalspawn thing until it was settled, I think it's obvious that Elminster was never supposed to involve himself overly much in Charname's affairs. Since *daring* to involve in the matter would contradict to Mystras bidding, that's not exactly a possibility with him. Therefore it seems only reasonable that he was comparing his power to yours and your party. Giving the player an idea of exactly how much influence he had at that point.

 

Elminster is as powerful as your DM needs, meaning he will always own you in confronation, while he will typically suck when he's with your party for some reason.

 

I'm still not convinced. Elminster ain't a slave of mystra he has his own intrests in things and will act according to them, and Mystra knows this very well. Mystra will not directly tell Elminster not to intrevene since it is not her place to forbid mortals from doing something (if it was Mystra would have swiftly dealt with the likes of Sammaster before he could have done any real damage). Elminster acted because of his loyality to Gorion and guided the Charname at the beginning but was aware that in the end it really doesen't lie in his hands to solve the Bhaalspawn trouble.

 

Overpowered. Way, way, overpowered. I must be the only FR aficionado on Ao's green Toril that hates Elminster. I resent the fact that his faux Middle English feces are smeared all over the campaign books.

He's nothing but a male Mary Sue character. I never use him in my FR campaigns, and if he is mentioned, it's usually a humorous reference as to the true relationship he has with his "scribe".

 

Same here.

 

@ Paine:

Overpowered eh. Good luck with that attitude mate.

He's just a character, made by the creator of the campaign, who doesn't have to have anything to do with any of the normal games played in Forgotten Realms. There's always someone who's more famous than others, more powerful than others. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would make a problem out of it when there's absolutely no need to. By that same logic I could say Neo of Matrix was overpowered, or Conan the barbarian was overpowered. Raistlin of Dragonlance, Tetsuo of anime Akira, Yoda of Starwars, all of them were overpowered. Mine would be a poor world empty of enjoyment and variation if I did, though.

@Morgoroth:

Actually Elminster is closer to an extension of Mystra than his own being. Mystras desires and concerns are first and foremost in his mind, always. This is not to say Elminster didn't have his own will, it's just the way he perceives himself. As in Elminster in Hell, in one memory Mystra mentions that since her "reincarnation" she has thought of erasing Elminsters memories for they make her feel uncomfortable. Elminster responds that whatever her will, he would happily oblidge, for his life would be for nothing if he opposed his goddess.

Elminster is not just a mortal, he's the chosen of Mystra. That means he has abilities, information and power beyond a mere mortal, and basically acts as the representative of Mystra in all things. Therefore, Elminster partaking in the bhaalspawn business would speak of Mystras consent, directly or indirectly (it would be in her power only to prevent this product of *her* godly power from interrupting, and so would the responsibility be hers).

I think it only logical that while Elminster might not be aware of the details, he would certainly know that Mystra didn't want him to get overly much involved in Charname. To watch over him some considering his friendship with Gorion would be no problem, but nothing beyond a few subtle hints. Directly aiding or opposing him in combat would obviously be completely out of the question.

 

Good, good one.

**Claps**

Excellent.

 

Foradasthar: Don't misunderstand, I get where you're coming from. And there are a lot of famous/powerful NPCs in FR that I like (Drizzt, the Seven Sisters). I also understand as a DM that these characters are just there to add flavor to the setting, etc. and that they are only as powerful as a DM says they are.

I hate Elminister because he's clearly Ed Greenwood's Mary Sue. Okay, we get it, he's an archmage. There are plenty of uberpowerful archmages in Faerun, that's not what I have a problem with. My problem is that Elm is blithely taken to realms of absurdity. He knows everything. He boofed the goddess of magic. He went to hell and back.

All the characters you stated were flawed in some way. No so with Elm--or you certainly wouldn't believe it from the campaign materials (which is all I have to go on, because as great at world creation as Greenwood is, he's an utter hack when it comes to fiction).

Most of all, I hate that, every time I open one of my FR rule books, I inevitably have to skip through one of his long-winded, pompous pronouncements (written in terrible Ye Olde English, to boot). The Volo's Guides are some of the worst FR product ever, largely because of Elm's "witty" footnotes--it's dual of the pompous jackasses, and I'm not sure who wins that one. The worst offender has to be Drow of the Underdark, which has Elm in the company of a beautiful (of course) drow mage, who wants to learn from him. Why? Because he's Mary Sue Elm.

He just bugs me on every possible level. I won't pretend to be rational about it. YMMV, of course--the vitriol is directed purely at the character, not at his fans.

 

**Swinging**

Well balanced.

Conan was not wiped in any way. He died with natural death, although we were incapable of seeing that.

 

Haha. Well said, then. I don't agree, of course, but well said. I just view El as the luckiest man in the realms, that's all.

Then again I've been a fan of anything magical as long as I remember. So it's not like I'm objective here either.

 

On that note... I wonder when El's luck will 'run out' and Ed decides to give him the flick? Hell, they brought back Shade; killed gods, made new ones, when can we see smouldering remains and a pointy hat?

 

I always replace npc's that had relations with gods for something less relationable with the same. I dislike the idea of a character that can wipe everything and face gods equall. Especially of the bottom one. The reason is simple - god is god, I find it rather ilogical and stupid that mortal who is produced by god can kill a god. I stick to this :

Mortal can't kill a God

God can kill mortal

Mortal can kill Mortal

God can kill God.

Simple as that. ^.^

 

That's how it is, really. There are some exceptionally ridiculous creatures that can supposedly kill gods, but Elminster sure isn't one of them. The avatars of gods for example during the Time of Troubles were mere shadows of their true power. It's not just the power that makes the gods hard to kill, it's the fact that they each have their own respective 'domains' where most of their essence rests at all times. In these domains they have pretty much absolute power over anything, and killing a godly avatar will only temporarily sever the god's link to whatever plane the avatar was in, and momentarily consume a fraction of their real power.

Still, F&R gods aren't supposed to equal the one God of christian religion for example. If there was such a thing, then that'd be AO. But I don't know much anything about him, except that he's to gods as gods are to mere mortals.

Otherwise I do agree with your reasoning. Anything else than another god shouldn't ever come even near to killing a god. If there's something I don't accept, therefore, it's that damn prismatic dragon whatever with a CR of 60+, and that other tree-plant thing (don't remember its name) also known as "God Eater / Feeder / Killer".

 

There are some monsters that can kill gods.

Read about them here

 

Yeah ! CR's such as 60 I find over rated...Its just - stupid. Hello ? 60 ? Sixty ? Hell no. o.O

Nope, my mind blank as well.


A mastiff..a turtle...and common snake...really..productive...and the plots are blah as well...shesh...

 

I thought Cyric became a God himself by killing another God ...

Something like that I think, so who says El couldn't