How powerful is Elminster?

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Cyric had a bit help from Mask. Finder Wyvernspur got help from Tymora when killing Moander and taking it's place.

 

Ahh but they weren't GOD's were they

They were mortal and in the process of killing a God, they became one themselves.

 

Back, back, you evil thread necromancer!


@Shilvershield: Like Fabius pointed out, Cyric killed Bhaal using Mask (in sword form), so in fact it was a god who killed another god. Cyric became a god because AO needed to fill in the murder/death/strife portfolio and Cyric happened to be there. In the end, he became a god because AO said so, not because Cyric had killed a god.

[ September 29, 2006, 14:21: Message edited by: Colthrun ]

 

Ummm Elminster is a pussiecat compared to the most dangerous Mage in the multiverse, I mean this guy also has the Pointy Hat with the word 'Wizzard' spelt out on it, his knows not one spell, he can run away faster than a speeding bullet, Death usually comments "OH IT'S HIM", he has luggage on legs, let's hear it for the one the only Rincewind. I'm not sure the Demogorgon could take on the luggage...

Seriously Elminster will do whatever the DM wants, and who in the nine hells is Mary Sue?

[ September 29, 2006, 14:43: Message edited by: DarkStrider ]

 

DS: I was just about asking the same thing...

 

Rincewind?

Yeah I have no idea who Mary Sue is either ...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

In short, it's a character without any real faults.

Harry Potter is one, Drizzt is another, Elminister is third. I loathe both with a burning passion. It's lame, and it's ****ed up.

 

Of course, Elminster is a thorougly beefed up character. A character, mind you, created by one of the creators of the Realms itself. Artistic license one could say.

IMHO, why on Toril would a sufficiently creative DM EVER need a character as powerful (physically, magically, or politically) as Elminster?

@ Register: The characters you loathe with a burning passion, loathe(d) the ones who did them wrong:

Harry Potter: Voldemort
Elminster: the magelords

 

On the note of mortals killing gods, didn't Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul kill one of the Seven lost Gods while they were still mortal?

 

Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul wanted to kill Jergal, previous god of death, but Jergal decided he wanted to step down and let the three have his godly power instead. In the BG series if you can find the book "History of the Dead Three" it tells the tale of their encounter with Jergal and rise to godhood.

 

I know that, but it also says in the book that, while they were still mortal, they killed one of the Seven Lost Gods, and seized a portion of it's divine essence each.

 

Rincewind is a character created by Terry Pratchett for use in his Discworld Novels.
Back on topic, Elminister's Silverfire can be stoped by its counterpart shadow magic (of the shadow weave). This actully happend, but resulted in a rift torn through to the nine hells.

 

Regarding Elminster not wanting to fight <charname>.....I'd like to point out that <charname>, at the point you talk to Elminster, is probably more God than Man. The game mechanics may not show it, but if you play the Jaheira Romance, <charname's> expanding conciousness and growth into something greater than a man is a fairly central theme.

 

If you wanted to set up a plausible battle between the Elminster and Demogorgon "characters" to find out who was tops, forget it. But *purely* in terms of game mechanics, if you set up a duel with ground rules then you could conceivably have it out with them.

1. Fight to the (permanent) death.
2. Teleportation is possible, but only inside the confines of the "arena."
2. No intervention from higher powers to influence the outcome of the battle.
3. All *other* skills/abilities/items listed in the characters' standard stat blocks are available to those characters.
4. Skills/abilities/items not specifically mentioned in the stat blocks and/or not specifically descibed or allowed by the game mechanics in any of the official handbooks are not permited (ie, story-based insta-kill SilverFire is not allowed, but the "official" 4d12 no save brand is).

Maybe a few other basic rules...

Then take two people familiar with the characters and their abilities and have them duke it out a number of times to see who wins.

Elminster's 3.5 info is sitting around somewhere. As for Demogorgon's I don't know which char/stat block one would use. I suggest the most-powerful version you can find. As for who would win, both are ridiculously powerful in absolute terms but I believe, off the top of my head, that Demogorgon would probably come out on top more times than not.

 

Well if people are willing to spend three pages debating this issue, somebody should be willing to actually test the theory.

 

Demogorgon's stats are described in the Book Of Vile Darkness. Elminster's can be found in either the v3.5 Monster Manual or Dieties and Demigods I've heard, although you might need to update his stats manually through the Epic Level Handbook.

Though from the looks of it, Elminster's abilities appear to be mostly innate; i.e. mostly invented by Greenwood on the fly, and not officially listed. Mono e mono Demogorgon would probably win if he managed to get into close-combat, whereas Elminster would have the advantage of distance. Tough call.

 

Elminster's abilities are in the FR Campaign Setting too.

 

Yeah, are there any significant changes from 3.0 to 3.5? I hear spellcasting prodigy was nerfed, and I don't remember if he had the Archmage spell power arcana, but I'm not sure if he got tweaked in terms of levels, items or such.