Infidelity

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I second other concerns about sample size and population, but if you're aware of and OK with them, then I've added mine. Looking at the results, a trend is already appearing. Though, of course, that may only mean that people hiding their sexuality from their significant others are also good at hiding it from other people.

 

Cheaters are bad, naughty, evil, wicked people who don't care for their kids and kick puppies.

Puh-lease.

Grow up.

People cheat for a lot of reasons but nearly universally the relationship is over long before the cheating started (except for open relationships). I can think of less painful ways to end a relationship but all divorces and breakups are painful. Having said that, my wife and I both feel infidelity is a "game over" hit.

 

If the relationship is over then get the f&*k out of it. I happen the think that someone who cheats on their spouse is a pretty screwed up person, in fact. Get your crap in order. Get out of the relationship... then start your next relationship. And a little tip to all the people who get into relationships with cheaters... you're next!

But don't listen to me, as apparently the many lessons I learned from my own parents on what not to do (lived through 5 divorces and many more break ups growing up) and the plethora of cheating related breakups I've observed from others I've known should be chalked up to me not being "grown up". Fantastic! Would I somehow be more grown up in your eyes Bruno if I went out and cheated on my wife of 9 years (more than 11 years together), put my family through a year or so of utter hell while the cheating became completely apparent... and then went and got my own place, while my soon to be ex-wife and children lived somewhere else?

How about this... I submit that those who lack the ability to respect the sanctity of their marriage vows and cheat are in need of a bit of growing up.

Sometimes the comments from some of the established board members here boggle my mind. Oh, okay, so they cheated because they had a "good reason." Thanks for clearing that up, really. Forgive me if I forget to hit the rep button to acknowldge the great wisdom you've shared with us all.

 

Wow, that's pretty self-righteous. I did not say "good reasons", I simply said "reasons". While I do not condone infidelity I am also not willing to condemn a person for it. I have also seen a lot in my life and have no interest in villifying people based on something I neither have any knowledge about nor is it any of my business. So be blunt what goes on between two people is their business, not anyone elses -- it sucks when children are dragged into it (like a very young T2 and his sisters).

Had the ex-Mrs Bruno chosen to end the relationship with "honey, I don't love you and want you the hell out of my life" it would have been a bit easier than her deciding to leave me and our children to pursue extra-curricular activities at the university. It really sucked that both the kids were already having issues with depression, my daughter was borderline suicidal, and I was dealing with PTSD -- those were things the ex really didn't consider at the time and didn't care about (after all she was in love). But the marriage was already dead by that point -- she simply dismembered the body, soaked it in lye and then burned what was left.

No, I'm not bitter.

And I'm not willing to condemn every cheater. However, for Mrs Bruno and myself infidelity is a deal breaker and would end the marriage.

 

I don't agree with that basic premise, T2. I've kown some realtionships that have survived it. Of course, a lot depends on if the other partner finds out about it. For many it is a deal breaker, but I've known a few intances in which the other partner never found out, at least that I know of. The cheating stopped and the relationship went on. Relationships are far more organic than we would like to believe they are [by that I mean to say that they have a life of their own, apart from how we try to control them]. A realtionship may appear dead, but it can come back to life and become very strong again.

 

I would agree with that Chandos. To comment to you and Tal, I've seen a lot of people go down that path. In the military, where families are separated for six months or more, there is a lot of stress and temptation (I guess there's a lot of temptation everywhere, though). Other than the open relationships (which I've seen many), in general infidelity is a symptom of greater problems. It's usually (but not always) the last act of defiance or a last fence to cross before ending the relationship. Usually infidelity is the death blow to a relationship but sometimes is can wake up the person to fully realize what they could lose. I've seen it go both ways.

I've seen a lot of really good people make this kind of mistake, I've seen people in absolutely miserable relationships turn somewhere else for comfort and I've seen absolute jerks take advantage of every situation they could. I've worked side-by-side with these people and know, while this kind of thing can affect their integrity and happiness, infidelity does not define the person (although sometimes it is a big indicator of their quality). While I would not condone infidelity, I also will not condemn someone for something I'm really not going to know anything about. And I've certainly been on the bad side of this situation as both an adult and child.

 

A few followups ...

Is that really so (the promiscuity thing)? I would have been afraid to say such a thing out loud regardless, lol.

What trend do you see?

You guys seem reluctant to come right out with it. (j/k) What is solid, that there are fewer same sex affairs?

~

@Marceror and T2 - I sympathize with both of you. I think people internalize profound stress such as you've experienced in different ways, which may lead to the different 'end products' we see in you today as adults. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist and I don't know what those ways might be, but it isn't terribly surprising to me that you could be on separate ends of the spectrum while having experienced similar trauma.

I think that people who have never experienced it tend to underestimate the impact it has. It's not something you just magically 'get over' one day or brush aside. The scars can run deep-deep-deep, and sometimes the wounds are never really healed. Children suffering collateral damage from this sort of thing is indeed a [brace yourself for melodrama] 'tragedy.'

 

Overall, I have a hard time respecting people who cheat. I think the marriage vows are sacred and special. I have very little time for the excuses made by cheaters.

I also believe that it is often not just between the two people involved. There's the person cheated with, there's the children, there's the family and friends caught in the middle . . . it's not just a victimless act.

At the same time, there's more to a person than one act, no matter how low that act is. I can see T2Bruno's point about not totally condemning someone based on one facet of their life only.

The problem is, whether it's logical or not, whether it's fair or not, many people feel that if you break one promise you will break another. Therefore, by that thought process, which I tend to adhere to, if you are willing to betray the person to whom you voluntarily stood up in front of witnesses and made a semi-legal contract with to be faithful until the end of your days, the person you told the world you love above all others, then you are very likely to betray other people to whom you have a less firm bond.

 

Perhaps it's more open than in hetero relationships because until recently, gays have no been able to marry, and I think there are many who feel that infidelity towards a g/f or b/f is "less bad" than towards a husband or wife.

 

Bruno, my apologies if I came off a bit self righteous. I did mention that this topic was a hot button for me, and my reply to you reflects that, I think. I also happen to be fiercely committed to making my marriage last until I'm old and gray. I know this won't happen by accident, or as a result of indifference, so perhaps I've become a tad dogmatic about protecting the institution. Marital infidelity happens to be one of the big potential stumbling blocks to that pursuit, so if I do end up condemning a few cheaters in an effort to keep my own marriage, my family, whole, then so be it. To me that is a price of no consequence. And for what it's worth, I don't necessarily condemn "a person" for cheating, but I do condemn the act.

If this makes me an old fashioned old coot, then fine, just call me cooter!

 

I think saying "I'm not willing to condemn someone for infidelity" is a lot like saying I'm pro-choice. If I'm not completely against something, then I must be for it.

If your not anti-abortion you must like abortion you damned baby killer!​

If your not anti-infidelity you must like cheating you damned adulterer!​

That's flawed logic (by a few, but not everyone).

 

For my part, I wasn't taking exception to the idea that you "weren't condemning" cheaters, but that you seemed to regard (presumably my) harsh view about cheating as a product of immaturity. It's anything but. Largely because of my parents' cheating I was forced to grow up real young, real fast... so I took exception to being told to "grow up."

 

Duly noted Marceror and to be honest I did think that ... although I would have said "inexperience" rather than "immaturity". I apologize for that.

 

As for gay promiscuity, my former mother in law (Doris) is a lesbian. She once told me a joke:

Q: What do two gay people do on a second date?

A: What's a second date?

Now studies may prove that gays are a lot less promiscuous than what is bandied about. But the perception that gays are quite promiscuous is firmly embedded not only in the hetero community, but also in the gay community. More serious discussions with Doris reinforced this, as well as a few I had with some of her male homosexual friends and with other gay people I have met in my travels.

 

Getting back to infedility itself. You will see many relationships weather it. Sometimes the partner will forgive. Other times, you will see the victim turn into another person and make life miserable for their cheating partner. Instead of leaving them, they make them pay. For years and years. You can see it with many older couples as an example. Many of them lived in different times where divorce was frowned upon and wasn't an option socially unless you were willing to be looked at in a different light. Today's world hasd a whole differnet view on divorce. It seems like it is accepted. nowadays.

 

There are fewer same-sex relationships overall. What I see is that there are fewer affairs involving a transition from one sexuality to another. Men married to women generally cheat with women. Women dating other women generally cheat with other women. Men dating men aren't too likely to cheat with women instead of men.