Infidelity

T2 made the point that people still stay together long after the relationship has failed. These sound like pretty good examples of failed relationships to me, regardless of if they remain together as "a couple," or not.

 

I agree with that. Staying together isn't the true measure of the success of a relationship. If the friendship, the companionship and the love are gone... then to stay together is really just dressing up a corpse.

Many do remain in these kinds of relationships, and the reasons why are numerous. Keeping that spark alive, keeping the love and admiration intact over many long years, it's no easy feat. A couple must constantly work at it, and if both parties aren't committed to that, then the relationship is going to be in trouble.

 

I believe that it is possible to "re-ignite" the fire of a relationship that has gone cold. Every relationship has ups and downs, and "great" times and "not-so great" times. I feel that there are far too many voices out there saying:

"hey, things aren't exactly wonderful in your marriage? It doesn't feel like it did when you first met? Well, that means it's over, folks, so get divorced and start over! Or cheat! It's all your spouse's fault anyway, and (s)he deserves it!"

While I agree that both people have to want to make it work, the point is that it won't happen overnight, and every marriage has problems, even the best ones. Just throwing it all away at the first sign of trouible or because you aren't hetting your way all the time is a sign of extreme immaturity and selfishness, IMHO.

 

Indeed ... you might be surprised at the number of persons who conduct years-long affairs and seem to have no moral qualms whatsoever with doing so. Then there are the 'deviants' who do it at least in part with the express purpose of inflicting pain and suffering on their spouses ... or those predatory types on the other side who specialize in casually breaking up marriages/relationships and who keep score of how many they've ruined like it's some kind of bizarre quasi-sporting competition.

Like in Blades' example, there are also many who enter into sexual relations with multiple partners with little forethought, much less consideration of their public marriage vows as LKD mentioned. And consequences of these actions for spouses/partners seem often to carry little weight, with personal considerations (was it exciting, might the fallout harm me professionally or financially) being more significant. I'm not sure if this is due to immaturity or the suggested shift in societal norms or what, or if it really is just pure egoism.

This is all just to balance out the struggling-but-really-trying-hard-yet-succumbing-to-temptation-good-folks-at-heart prototype. These others are out there, in droves.

 

I agree LKD. Many spouses have forgiven the cheater and the two grew to love each other. There are many who don't really appreciate what they currently have until they do something that could jepordize it. They take their marriage or partner for granted. But once they do it, they can be remorseful. And ashamed. And forgiven. Think about it. I would think most of the people posting here in this chain have a pretty high-moral gorund they are standing on. Basically, you are all generally "good peeps". If any of you did something stupid, maybe say got hammered and hooked up with a chic when on vacation with the guys. But as soon as you woke up, you felt terrible about it. Would you tell your spouse? I would. The lie would eat me alive.

 

I think that's a very difficult question to answer if you've never been in that situation.

 

I was actually referring to people who feel the marriage has fizzled out, not to cheaters. But your point is well taken and true -- it is possible for a decent person to forgive a truly contrite spouse.

But back to the fizzle -- it's no excuse to go out and cheat. It's no excuse to go out and violate the privacy of a marriage to 'friends'. If my wife and I are having private troubles, I don't go out and blab to all of my friends. I try to talk to her. That's what I did with my first wife. Then I found out that she was going to all of her friends and telling them all sorts of things I had told her in confidence. Then these female Poodles started projecting their own negative experiences onto her. "Oh, he's controlling the money? That's ABUSE!" when in fact the grave sin I was committing was trying to pay off the <deity cursed> Visa bill. Stupid <certain kind of frost>s.

Once she started talking divorce and telling all and sundry how evil I was because I didn't do everything exactly the way she wanted (you know, daring to have an opinion, daring to want a say in what happened to us, radical shtuff) and she also made it clear that nothing I said meant <feces> to her, I talked to some friends, including you guys, desperate to find a magic bullet. I rode that one out to the very end, but there was no hope. She just had an unrealistic view of life and had been conditioned by the feminist hordes that Male Disagreement = Abuse and that the only way out was Divorce! Yay! Girl power!

Ahem. Point being I have seen it in other marriages too. Some men think they can get married and then go on living their lives the exact same way as they did when they were bachelors. Unrealistic. Some women expect every day to be a scene from some piece of <feces> romantic movie like The Notebook. Also unrealistic. Some people think their job is to judge every move their spouse makes, and once said spouse does anything they don't like, it means they are Incompatible, so end it! That's not how marriage is supposed to be. You should support, love, care for, and maybe sometimes give a wake up call to your spouse, not hover like a <deity cursed> vulture waiting for them to make a mistake so you can feed your ego by "taking care of your own needs". Modern pop psychology is <equine feces>.

People make mistakes. If they own up (as Blades said) and make a real effort to change, a decent spouse should be forgiving, if they meant what they said in their vows. I mean, we all want our own mistakes to be forgiven. You don't have to be religious to understand that concept.

 

LMAO - that was very Snoop Dogg of you, LKD. But maybe you should have followed up with "when hoes step out, pimps got to put them b*tches back in line!"

The ensuing rant was very entertaining too.

 

Yes, it is Aldeth. I wasn't inferring that it should be everyone's answer. I was actually asking the group what their answere would be. Yours? Not sure? I have felt guilty in the past when committing the smallest of lies with the wife. Like just telling her what she wants to hear to avoid an argument that I think would be unnecessary or pointless. I don't like to live with the guilt. I prefer to have a clean concious.The few I have eat at me as it is, so I think, if I ever did something that stupid or selfish, it really would eat me alive.

 

Whenever I get that question:

Me: I don't speak English.
She: But you're speaking English right now.
Me: No no, I only know how to say "I don't speak English" in English.

Then I get hit or something.

 

I've had a couple of women hit on me during my marriage where it seemed that they were more interested in ruining what my wife had with me than they were interested in being with me. Or in other words, it was about my wife, not me. One of those was smoking hot, and I will admit, it took some real will power on my part to shut her game down.

One of the more bizarre experiences I've had was when I was hit on by a woman whose husband was less than 50 feet away from us. We were former co-workers at a large work reunion type event, that happened to be a bar. Due to my previous professional work relationship with this person (which had never been anything BUT professional) I never imagined that her alcohol induced flirtations were anything serious. Until she came in to kiss me. Are you kidding me? Your husband, and father of your children (whose pictures you had shown me earlier in the night) is out on the patio. Go kiss him if you're in that sort of mood. I immediately bailed on the reunion, called my wife to tell her what happened, and drove home to be with her and kiss my sleeping boys on their foreheads. The sanctity of my home was intact--such things are worth protecting.

@LKD, sorry to hear about your experiences with your ex. When one party gives up, no amount of trying on the part of the other party is enough. I had about a 6 week period with my wife where I wasn't sure we were going to make it. It was about 5 months after we purchased our first home, and yes, I was controlling the money in a way that would make Ebenezer Scrooge proud. We had never had a mortgage before, and although we agreed that we'd have to tighten our belts to make this work, my wife was losing her patience with that program. My wife flew off the handle one night when I refused to buy my son a cookie when he requested it (she likes to spoil them, but that's another topic), and something as silly as that escalated into a fight. After that, nothing I did was good enough, and things just got worse and worse.

It got so bad that I ended up calling a divorce lawyer, because I was tired of being mistreated. After weeks of not talking, and the D-word now being thrown into the mix... my wife started to openly regret her actions. She started asking me to forgive her, but at that point I wasn't ready. She had pushed me way too far. She would need to re-earn my trust. When I decided that I would spend Christmas afternoon and evening at my sister's house, with my boys... without HER, that really hit her hard.

Long story short, we reconciled and the experience ultimately served to bring us closer together. I think (or at least hope) that she learned a valuable lesson that her actions are liable to destroy everything she holds dear. She's had opportunities to go down that road again since, but she knows where it leads now, and that's been enough over the past 3 years to prevent her from going there again. Even when I was out of work for several months... and pinching every penny, she was nothing but supportive of me. I've learned to be a bit more relaxed with the spending.

Bottom line, while my wife was on her tirade, I was powerless to fix any of the problems. For that period when she felt she was "done," well, that was just that. It wasn't something I could fix or work around. Thankfully, she came to her senses before things went too far, and realized leaving a husband who was deeply in love with her, committed to her, faithful to her, etc. etc. etc. wasn't worth losing just because he happened to be a bit of a cheapskate on occasion.

 

Blades,

It's difficult for me to answer not because I necessarily think I would lie to her, but because if I were to do something like that it would be hugely out of character for me, to the point that if I were willing to cheat on her, then I'd probably be willing to lie if I thought I could get out of it.

So sitting here today, I think I would want to tell her, but if I actually had to make such a decision, I would obviously be in a very different mindset than I am now, and maybe I wouldn't. I don't think you can accidently have sex with someone, no matter how impaired you may be. I think it would have to be a somewhat conscious decison. So if I'm willing to do that, lying in comparison doesn't seem like such a big deal...

 

This can be quite complicated though. Depending on what qualities your wife does or does not possess, she may react in unexpected ways. e.g., confessing an inequity may cause her to flip out rather than feel lovey-dovey at your honesty. Or it may cause her to be angry because of your honesty for god knows what reason. ("Why did you have to tell me this, you a-hole?!?") Sometimes discretion might better serve the structural integrity of the union.

Lucky for you she didn't skip you and head straight for your wife then. (Studies have shown that this is not uncommon.)

I do think this is a good point - for women in particular there sometimes appears to be a form of validation sought in the husband-stealing endeavor. Take something away from a rival = prove that you have that power (because you're so damn hot and irresistable or whatever) = win the contest = feel validated. Or something like that.

 

@Aldeth

You have control over the sorts of situations you allow yourself to get into. If you go to Vegas, hang out with girls, drink yourself into oblivion, and wake up next to one of those girls... you're guilty of infidelity.

I like to think I would tell my wife in such a case... that the guilt would eat me up inside until I did. That said, I hope I never have to find out the actual answer to that question. In fact, I will go out of my way to make sure that I never do.

 

Don't you mean hit with something? Like the cast-iron frying pan-to-head ordeal?

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I know my old lady. If she found out several years later, she would lose it, as she would think the last few yars were a big lie. I wouldn't do that to her, it would only make her hurt more. I would tell her. Though i am sure every situation is unique in a case like this. I rely was just wondering how everyone else felt about it. Stirring the pot so to say.

BTW, I wouldn't put myself in that situation like that either, but I know a few friends who I believe are weak enough to do so. Or have. It wasn't pretty for the ones who did.

 

We've discussed this in previous threads. I think a woman stupid enough to ask this question deserves an answer like this:

"The outfit doesn't make you look fat, sweetie, the cellulite under your skin that comes from your excessive eating is what makes you look fat. No clothes on earth are gonna hide that, so quit trying and get your hiney on the exercycle."

When she goes for the frying pan or revolver, just say "I wouldn't have said anything before, but you DID ask!" Then she'll be all happy and reasonable again.

In all honesty, though, my current wife and I have a deal -- neither one of us wants to go out looking stupid, and so any wardrobe questions that come about are answered honestly and the answer taken in the spirit of "we're here to help each other not look like tools"

 

I once had a woman in a bar turn to me and ask, "How old do you think I am?"

I just finished my drink and left the bar.