Iraq vs US

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"Counter-insertion? Not, perhaps, counter-insurgency?"
counter insertion, meaning that the are deployed to counter a threat, counter insurcency wouldnt make any sense, the police do that in alot of countries

"Now you are claiming to have read secret U.S. documents, eh?"
no, i never said that, ive read british documents, and since our intelligence works together (for the most part) we have alot of the same documentation

"In order to argue you need to offer some support"
im not arguing, you are

"Like comparing passing out pamphlets in Iraq to something which would constitute treason in the U.S. or U.K. That's silly"
its simple diplomacy, the grandiouse of their laws compared to ours, passing out leaflets talking down the government is known as an anti-government activity, which there is punishable by death, here we dont bother with it anymore but in the past that was also punishable by death in the UK and the US

"Oh, and you gloss over that whole genocide thing again."
im avoiding the genocide issue because america has done that in the past too, and so has the UK

"Hey Shoshino! how about some solid proof about what you are talking about rather than obscure references to people you supposedly know or things you have supposedly read or seen? I'm a man of logic and without logical and strong proof I will discount anything that does not fall under the strong evidence category."
if you are a man of logic, then youd know that i wont offer evidence which would break the law for the sake of a debate with people i dont know on a trivial message board

 

Huh?? I thought Hussein was in bed with Satan and Elizabeth was busy with her butlers

 

Why counter-insurgency? Because that is the term for the kind of warfare best described as when-soldiers-fight-infiltrating-guerrilas/ terrorists/ other violent, evil and dangerous people. Counter-insurgency is the kind of game the israelis play with Hammas and Hisbollah.

Not quite a policeman's job - however, it *is* a police task when it is all happens within the borders of your own country like with the english police and the IRA. But even then there is a level of danger the police cannot deal with.

I asked because "Insertion" usually means transporting a force into hostile territory, that's why counter-insertion sounds a little odd to my ignorant ears (I know I actually type and read but anyway ). The opposite would be "Extraction". So counter-insertion doesn't really makes sense IMO. Most likely I'm just not familiar with your terminology.

 

what the hell kinda history books have YOU been reading? Handing out flyers used to punishable by death in the US? erm, maybe in one of the colonies prior to the forming of the US, but afterwards...no, no, no, no, NO!

Note: if you're going to equate the colonies with the US, don't. That would be as stupid as comparing russia during 1902 with the USSR during 1930

 

It is never stupid to compare two things, who knows, maybe you surprise yourself and find out something that way, probably the differences

 

Please, Shoshino. First, if you really are an intelligence operative, what the holy heck are you doing discussing classified documents on a message board of gaming nerds?

Second, there are plenty of claims that you are making that do NOT involve national secrets. The claim, for instance, that the US has ever had the death penalty for criticizing the government. Absolutely ridiculous! But yet, if you could provide just one link to a creditable source, perhaps we could attach then some belief to your claims.

It seems to me it would be simplicity itself to link to NATO's ranking of special forces and yet you don't. Why? Too lazy? I hate to think that someone in the British Intelligence would spend so much of his time arguing with nameless faces on multinational boards and then not be willing to spend a little more to actually back up his arguments. It really gives me a very poor view of the Brits' intelligence operations.

 

BOC,

I am not going to continue discussing the difference. I will respectfully disagree with you and move on.
On the resolution, it seems to be a matter of will. The US has the will to do something about the current situation with Iraq. No nation was willing to step up and enforce the resolution that Turkey agreed to.
About your question, how am I supposed to know why the US considers Iraq to be such a big threat? Am I privy to information that you are not?
I think it is naive to point out the limitations of the Iraqi military to say there is no way to deliver weapons of mass destructions. Especiallly biological weapons.

 

Jack
Since you don't know why Iraq is a threat for USA, then why do you accept this claim? You don't seem to be the kind of person, who agrees with everything your goverment supports without thinking.

As for the resolution, I would say that it is more a matter of motives and deplomatic relationships (Turkey is an ally, Iraq is considered to be an enemy) than a matter of will.

 

When did I say I agreed or disagreed with any action against Iraq? I am waiting to see what the inspectors find before I draw any conclusions.

Which would either provide the will to do something or not.

 

Interesting sidenote maybe,

Yesterday I´ve read claims that the Turks(sort of the guard dogs of the no-fly zone) are missusing their freedom and are bombing Kurd villages in the northern no-fly zone. tsk tsk..

This is a rumor, if I found links I´ll post them

..
..
Pilots say U.S. allows Turkey to bomb Kurds

We're in Iraq to protect Kurds?

[ December 03, 2002, 21:58: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

Jack
I think that you misunderstood me. I didn't say that you disagree or agree with any actions against Iraq. I just say that you seem to believe that Iraq is a threat for USA and I was led to this conclusion by your own words.

I have not interpreted them right, I apologise.

 

Well this is a continuiation of the off-topic trend here.
Turkey's treatment of their kurds isnt all that much better than Iraq's treatment of their. The turkish goverment have been waging what can almost be called a genocide against the kurds in northern Turkey. This is one (of many) of the main reasons that Turkey isnt allowed into the EU.

This also comes to show that we in the west is quite arbitrary when we decide on whom to condemn and judge. Sure may not let Turkey into EU but we can have them in NATO and as they are one of our allies we will close our eyes for their atrocities, while we at the same time use Saddam's treatment of the kurds as one of the main reasons and justifications to bomb Iraq to before the stone age.

 

BOC,

I'm not "the U.S.". Perhaps I should have said "U.S. government".

To be clear, if Iraq does have the chemical/biological/nuclear weapons they are purported to have, then I do think they are a threat to the U.S. as well as any non-Muslim country. Because if Al-Queda, or a similar group, purchases these types of weapons from Iraq, then they will use them.

[ December 03, 2002, 23:36: Message edited by: Jack Funk ]

 

Shoshino:
Your response to my question was an evasion and a bad one at that. You still haven't answered the question I've asked. I'm getting my information from published works where are you getting yours?
To everyone else:
I just want to point out that biological weapons are in some ways the most dangerous type of weapon out there. Why? simple: a biological weapon is very difficult to control/direct once deployed and it can't distinguish between friend and foe. It will infect anything that meets its infection requirements (the most dangerous being air born.) Ever read The Hot Zone by Richard Preston? The book isn't about biological weapons persay but outlines some frightening scenarios. That book frightened me more than anything else I've ever read/seen/heard. I just wanted to point out how dangerous these weapons are for the purpose of understanding (certainly not to spark an off-topic debate.)

 

IIRC Shosino said he wont be coming back for a while

He prob needs to play Mr. Bond again, maybe blow up a space station with thermo-nuclear rockets..

The bad guy is prob be launching those if the UN doenst pay him one Million dollars... erm, onehundred billion dollars

 

You're probably right Morgoth, our estemed Mr. Shoshino is out "doing covert operations."