Is any kind of stealing OK?

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IMHO, taking/using something that doesn't belong to you, and without permission, is stealing, and no form of stealing is 'kosher' due to my experiences.

I believe that anything worth having is worth buying/working for, if in need, there are other ways of procuring other than theft, and the only things I can think of that are understandable thefts, though wrong, are necessities: food, water, etc.... anything else is a want, again, IMO.

If in need and have tried every other route to procure what is needed and failed however, and desperation sets in eg: no food/water in days/weeks, a starving child, etc.... then, and only then should 'theft' even be contemplated, but by that time, IMO someone or something should help/happen to ease the need, I have stolen before, in childhood, I am no saint/hypocrit, btw, but have learned that when in a dire need, there is always another way, other than using this method of 'surviving', though it is usually hidden....

 

Sorry, some overlaps with Rallymama and Sydax. Anyway: @Sydax: 1. If cable is not worthy, then why bother with hijacking the signal? If you want to have it, you have to pay the price, it is as simple as that. It's not even legitimate to think you could pay just what you think something is worth.

2. some time ago it wasn't forbidden to copy or lend CDs, the prohibition only applied to selling copies or lending CDs for a fee. Commercial copying and lending, in fact. Every private copy was allowed. Since April this year we have a new law in Germany. Private copies are still allowed - as long as the user does not circumvent an existing copy protection.

3. You paid the cop 10 bucks as a penalty for speeding, not for buying a service you never received. You're paying taxes because the state protects you, invests in infrastructure and cares for its people.
Where did you learn that two wrongs make a right?

 

Maybe I expressed wrong: the cop must give you a ticket that you have to pay in the police station and usually is more than 10 bucks, by giving the cop the 10 bucks I am bypassing some legal situation; therefor I will have no "criminal records", by the way, the cop doesn't supposed to take the money.

 

It isnt a crime if you dont get caught.

I actually think this is how many of us think of the issue in relation to ourselves, we may be of the opinion that all kinds of theft is wrong but we have no qualms about yanking a pen or two from our workplace.

 

I have to clear up something. In the thread of mine that dmc references, I said:

I was saying how OTHER people rationalize these things. I wasn't in any way condoning or justifying what these people are doing, and I have to say, I've never stolen cable, and unless my accountant is doing something under-handed, I've never cheated on my taxes either.

One more thing - I think joacqin brings up a good point - most people are only deterred against doing things based on their consequences. If they don't think they'll get caught, then there will be no consequences, and therefore no deterrent. Another common justification (in terms of cable and taxes) is the mob-mentality, i.e., "Everybody does it."

 

So you are saying that you would not keep 10 billion dollars who were mistakingly inserted on your account and you for some reason were absolutely certain that there were no way at all that you could ever be caught? You would also somehow know that the money was originally intended to buy a new platinum/diamond necklace for Queen Elizabeths new pet dog.

Now if you would return the money you would be one of the most honest persons on this earth.

My point with "It isnt a crime if you dont get caught" was that most of have a theoretical opinion that stealing things to be wrong but if we would get an oppurtunity to get something we really wanted with no risk most of us would take it even if it would be stealing. Morals only tend to last to the first true temptation.

 

Oooh! Lucifers gonna be stoking the coals over that one!

Some of the things you guys are classing as 'stealing' are every day things. Downloading MP3's is stealing? My arse. Taking pens/envelopes/jiffy bags from work is stealing? My arse. Taking from a big international company who isn't really gonna notice the difference anyway is stealing? My arse.

I would NEVER I repeat NEVER take anything from anyone I thought they would miss. If I think I can get away with taking something that doesn't belong to me without the person either noticing, or missing the item, would I do it? You bet your bollocks for a barn dance I would.

Either a lot of people here are unrealistically putting on a holier-than-thou attitude on to try and impress, or, you have too much money.

My question to you is, why pay for something you can get for free? Once multinational companies bring to prices of their goods down to a realistic level, then I'm sorry but I refuse to pad out the already bulging coffers of over-rich business. I am not gonna be the reason they pay for a new Armani suit, or build a new heated indoor swimming pool. Get in the real world.

 

I say that I could easily steal from the people who won't miss it, just like Morsmodre said.

Going illegal on the trains? Of course I would, with those astounding prices, they should expect it.

Keeping the 500 kronor I found on the street? Only if I needed the money, if I don't need them right now, I give it away to charity.

Stealing anything, and I mean ANYTHING, from a huge corperation? I sure as hell would, and you know what? I would enjoy doing it.

Downloading mp3s from the net? Of course. About 10%(IIRC) only goes to the artist, most of the cash goes into the production company, so I frequently do it.

Stealing from a small store? No way in hell. I would never do that. Call it hypocrathy, but that's my stand on it.

 

Radio stations play the same 10 pieces of garbage 24/7. If I want to hear Enya and LoTR soundtrack, then I'd have to go as far as the US no doubt to find a single radio channel that plays even some of those songs. Besides what's the point of carrying a portable radio around and listen some crud (yes that's my idea of the mainstream music) 99.9% of the time just so you'll be there when that one good song comes out? If it's merely a matter of an inconvenience, it's a pretty damn big inconvenience alright.

And Mordsmore over here really does go over the line to prove the point about how relative thieving is. If you so much as take a speck of dust off another person, that was his possession in the first place, then you steal. It's not that hard to define what's stealing, if someone steals a coin from of you and you steal it back, you're still stealing. The thing is, when is that stealing "right", and when is it wrong?

There have been documents of a very realistic problem with how money just pours and pours and pours to certain organizations and people so much that there is an incredible amount of money going virtually nowhere. Money that is gathered simply because it can be gathered, and nobody actually benefits from it. Nobody even knows what to do with it. And in the most extreme cases, that it even exists.

I realise the benefits of entertainment, and the services and advantages some superbig corporations give us. But when someone or something has so much money that all the normal people in a country can't get that much in a lifetime, then something is seriously wrong.

I'm not saying "hang Bill Gates and give his cash to me!". I'm saying, if you take all the ridiculously rich people and organizations in the world and see how much cash they have, then how can anyone say that that money hasn't been stolen from somewhere? To make business is ok. But to make business at a very high expense of customers and other people, isn't business. That's stealing. And unfortunately legalized such as well.

Michael Jackson could afford to build his own huge amusement park, and had lots of more to spare. And for what, singing? He should be rich of course, he earned that much. But with that much money for just him alone, not bringing in the marketing companies etc, you gotta wonder did they really have to ask for that damn 10-20 bucks for each of his CD's? Could they not have been satisfied with half of that, or even 1/5:th of that? They'd still be rich as hell. Only difference is if everyone took only that 1/5:th and was satisfied with being merely rich, and not Bill Gates (I think the guy's ok btw, he doesn't do what he does for money afterall), the money they needed and a little extra for some added pleasure, then we other people could perhaps afford to buy what we need, and not scavenge it off the garbage cellars and dark alleys of the internet when no-one was looking.

The F-1 drivers would be another example. It's cool to get a few hundred thousand euros a year (or even a million) for driving a car. But getting some 50-100 million? A year!? Where, good people, do you believe that money comes from, ultimately? That's right, it's us.

So if some people steal from "the companies" and "the covernment", are they really that bad? At least they didn't take the initiative in making sure some millions and millions of *actual* people would be poor forever, and a hundred times more would be hungry, suffering and dying because there was nothing left for them.

Wether stealing is ok or not, it happens all around us. So I guess nobody being really pure enough to judge others, it's for the law and people themselves to decide what they feel is wrong.

 

I agree with this with the exemption of staples. Things like gasoline, heating oil, food, milk etc. most people can't make the decision not to buy them.

 

I'd like to relate a story of something that happened to me a few years ago. I pulled into a gas station (that was full service - not pump it yourself). When the guy finished filling my tank, I handed him a $50 bill. He mistakenly thought I had handed him a $100 bill, and gave me $85 back. Keep in mind this happened when I was in college, was working part time and I didn't have a lot of money.

I GAVE THE MONEY BACK.

So to those who are saying that anyone would take anything if they knew they wouldn't get caught, I say no. Heck, in that case I wasn't even trying to steal something - he GAVE me the money, and I still gave it back, without thinking twice.

Hell, that guy was working his ass off just like I was at some low paying job, and then, when the registered finished under $50 at the end of the night, it may have cost him his job. I didn't think of all this at the time I gave the money back, but it occurred to me afterwards. And to relate this back to the "victimless crime" idea, the gas station wouldn't have missed the $50 at all, even if they could not blame any individual employee for the screw up.

 

Which is why I added that the money you found your account was meant to buy a diamond nicklace for Queen Elizabeth's dog. In your example the victim was someone you nor I would want to steal from.

However, when I was over in Germany this summer to buy beer at a huge warehouse with a few friends of mine the cashier made a mistake which netted me something arond 40$ or so and I quickly exited the store as soon as I noticed.

My point was that we all (or atleast nearly all) have a breaking point for our moral. Yours was not reached when getting too much back at a gas station and neither was mine but I buggered all morals when I got three cases of beer for free at very large store.

 

If we take we lose, if we give we get. That is the way it is. Even the "OK" stealing will never get you anywhere in the long run.

 

I concider stealing OK as long as you know you can get away with it, and it wont cause someone too much trouble. Ive stolen lots of things in my days (all the way from simple shoplifting to more serious stuff).
As you get older, you realize the riscs more, and you dont steal as much. But if I saw a basketball (Ive stolen LOTS of those[ps. Im not bragging]) or an unattended bag, I wouldnt hesitate much too steal it/look through it.
If someone catches you, what are they going to do? You could simply say you were checking who it belonged to.

I miss my old friends, the things we used to do. We would break into places (not private property though, but we broke into a shut-down mental hospital and raided it) and do all sorts of "semi-legal" things. You get a great feeling when doing such a thing as stealing and getting away with it, and although I dont do such things much any longer.

 

OK you Nelson Mandela wannabees. Picture the scene:

You walk into a shop. Lets call it, bloody Starbucks for arguments sake. You get your cuppa coffee for £2.50 whatever. You hand a fiver to the chap over the till. He is a busy man and at glance thinks you've given him a tenner, so duly gives you £7.50 change.

Do you, A) Hand the fiver over the till and inform the guy on £3.50 an hour who couldn't really give a **** that he's given you incorrect change? After all, £5 extra into Starbucks bank account should help them towards their next advertisement campaign to bleed more money out of you.

Or, do you B) Put the extra fiver into your pocket and walk out at a quicker pace before the £3.50 student making ends meat realises hes given you too much change (if he really gives two chuffs anyway)?

If your answer was A) I am sure there are support groups or helplines available.