Is it possible to fight the US?

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Comparing Bush to Hitler? You have to be kidding me!

The United States has never been like Germany was during World War 2. Even now, Germany discriminates against minority religions. A comparison between the 50 states and Germany is a grave insult.

I don't like Bush's social policies. However, he is a hawk - one that didn't surrender to terrorism. I will probably vote for Kerry unless he starts sounding like a coward or dove.

The Nazis were on the same level of moral depravity as Al Qaeda - even more so.

 

Like the US doesn't? You need to open your eyes, Blackhawk. I know of people who've been literally run out of town because they belonged to a non-Christian religion. Don't know about Bush being like Hitler yet, but when you know people who've survived Nazi Germany say they're starting to get some serious flashbacks, you tend to take notice.

 

Bush spent the entire day during 9/11 fleeing. Not a surprise, since that's what he did during the entire Vietnam War, and not for reasons of conscience. He took us into a war in Iraq that has NOTHING to do with terrorism, a war that was planned from the day he took office. Oh goody he attacked a non-involved country instead of "backing down". Do you feel safer, Blackhawk? I sure as hell don't. And silly me, I'd rather have a leader who doesn't go around starting wars.

On the other hand, I don't think the U.S. is gonna go Nazi, nor do I think a comparison between Bush and Hitler is very apt. We're in two very different situations. There's a phrase, something like reductum ad Hitlerum, which means comparing everything to Hitler and using him to prove points that don't necessarily have anything to do with him. There have been plenty of terrible leaders in history who aren't a bit like Hitler.

I have never heard of anyone being "literally run out of town" for having the "wrong" religion in this country, Sojourner, and it's not like I get all my news from Fox. I can understand non-Christians being uncomfortable in certain communities, but then Bible beaters are uncomfortable in New York City. Discomfort and being "run out" are two very different things, and if it's happening in my country I'd like to know about it.

 

It is happening. It doesn't necessarily make the national news.

 

@ Neriana

Personally, I wish that Clinton had taken care of Saddam rather than G.W. - or that Bush Sr. had finished the war to begin with.

Nevertheless, I do feel safer that Saddam is gone. If anything, it put shivers down the spines of the other Middle East states as well as their respective people. The Middle East does not function like it does here in the states. Power is most important and the tribal mentality is an integral part of the culture and beliefs.

In many respects, it comes down to the entire high context vs. low context cultures. Any undergrad sociology book can explain it better than I can.

@ Sojourner

I have never heard of anything like that happening. I agree with Neriana 100%. U.S. cities are so diverse culturally and demographically that the idea is obsurd.

And small towns? Never heard of it. There is a small town north of Sacramento called Yuba City. A large number of Sikhs started moving there some time ago and were embraced by the people. Nowadays, they have a large community and promote yearly festivals and parades which people from Northern California can go to and have fun.

Remember, over here in the United States, we have an independant and free press. Anything "meaty" like what you suggested would have been reported.

 

Not every ugly event makes the press, especially these days. Disbelieve all you want - it IS happening. I AM AMerican, BTW. And that vaunted tolerance is not everywhere. Not so long ago a petition was passed around my town to get a family to leave. Their crime was that they were immigrants.

 

Wait for it.

Wait.

You have the right to freedom of speech. You have the right to freedom of worship. You have the right to freedom from want. And you have the right to freedom from fear. I alone have the fifth freedom, the right to do whatever it takes to ensure that your four freedoms are protected and preserved. I alone have full authority to spy, steal, destroy, and assassinate in order to protect America and her freedoms. I alone may go above the law, to protect the law. I commit brutality, to prevent brutality. I may kill, to protect the lives of many. I seek not to drive pleasure by inflicting violence upon others, but rather to dissuade enemies of our nation. I work alone, if captured or compromised, my country and president will disavow any knowledge of my existence and of the fifth freedom. This I understand. I am Sam Fisher, I am the Splinter Cell.




Does stuff like that really go on?

Yes.

Should it go on?

Yes.

Why?

Because when it has not, in the past, we've always gotten blind-sided by it. And civilian casualities make baby Jesus cry.

What gives you the right?

We give ourselves the right. You certainly do not. You can give yourself the exact same right, however. All you have to do is stop fighting amongst yourselves long enough to do something worthwhile. All you have to do is overcome your own problems that bog you down within your own countries, your own minds, your own little world. All you have to do is start thinking about what could happen, and plan for it. The drawback to all this is that people will resent you for your ability. And they will begin to hunt you.

It bothers me that Amerika has this ability, this power, and I can't do anything about it. I feel helpless against Amerika. You are fascist in promoting your "democracy", and although I like the freedom, I resent your power. Is there something I can do to lessen your power?

Yes. Reshape the entire world so that there's absolutely no reason for us to invest in this power. Rich is the nation that has many war heroes, long since forgotten. Make every death accidental. Feed every person, use every resource to it's utmost ability, make it so that people have other worries, other ambitions, other goals than just staying alive. Make it so people look to the future, and not the past. Focus everyone's spirit, everyone's abilities to surviving as a species, and not as a faction. Not has a gang or a religion.

I can't do that. I don't know how to do that. It can't be done right now. How do you expect me to do that?

I don't expect you to do it alone. There are people who will help you. It's not going to be an easy road to travel, and you must allow a team effort. Other team mates may not do it exactly as you would have done it, but do the best you can possibly do when it's your turn at bat.

 

Noble goal, it is just that it is a little bit ambitious. Not only that one cannot predict history, the US are overstretched in dealing with Iraq already, so how could they reshape more of the middle east by force? Are you willing to be drafted for that noble goal? Well then, go for it.
But don't expect too much help for such a crusade. We here had a couple of them, and none of them was ever worthwhile.

It is maybe so that Europeans see this things unbedazzled by delusions of grandeur and superpower feelings and choose a more pragmatic approach to the world, much less ideological. People here, even my apolitical and highly religious 80 year old granny, laugh about Bush's childish good and evil manichaeisms. In our view the invasion of Iraq and fighting terror are two pairs of shoes. There is no universal evil, much less a universal good led from Washington by a president appointed by god (if one believes Gen. Boykin).

Unlike the people in the US, we only need to have a look at our cities to remember what prolonged war looks like. You have to travel overseas (what Americans rarely do anyway). Maybe that makes the difference and takes away the zeal needed for crusaderism.

 

Well, Ragusa, US politicians these days are quick to remove ranking officers in the military who disagree too loudly. So, it would not surprise me at all to see the war "to remake the middle-east" expand into yet another country this year, likely Iran or Syria. They've been quietly filling up the draft boards, so... but we're diverging again.