Is This Man Cheating on His Wife?

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"As a man thinketh in his heart so is he"

This man is cheating on his wife.

 

No, he is not cheating.

 

I don't know. I'd say it depends on your definition of the word "is".....

 

No physical, sexual contact with another living woman = No cheating.

 

In your opinion. Falling in love with someone else while becoming emotionally unavailable to your spouse is far more likely to wreck a marriage than having a one night stand with some floozy you met at the bar. Some would call that cheating, and, from a certain point of view, it is.

 

So if your wife or girlfriend fell head-over-heels in love with another man via phone or internet, had daily phone/video sex with him and emotionally doted on him to your complete exclusion, despite never actually touching, you're saying you'd be fine with it. After all, there's nothing physical going on.

Forgive me for quoting you, but: bullsh*t.

 

I would have to say that this qualifies as cheating - and for reasons beyond the obvious reason that the wife considers it cheating. I guess that's the first rule that applies in any relationship - if either of the members consider an action to be cheating, it's cheating.

But I think this situation goes further than that. This isn't some casual relationship, these people are married. Therefore, it shouldn't just be about the physical side of the relationship, but also about the emotional side. The bottom line here is this guy is neglecting his real wife for his e-wife. And really it's not even appropriate to call it an e-wife, because there is a real person behind that video image. Maybe on-line wife would be a better description.

DR's example is quite apt as well: There are many thing in a relationship beyond the physical aspects that are important. I'm not saying that everyone who does this stuff via the internet is cheating, but when it gets to the point that you prefer to spend time with your e-wife rather than your real wife, then it's a real problem, and I'd definitely say it's cheating.

EDIT: This seems somewhat similar to arguements over whether people viewing internet porn are cheating on their wives or girlfriends. IMO, this is even more cut and dry than internet porn. By that I mean, I think you can make a stronger arguement that viewing internet porn is not cheating than you can for this. With porn, even if it's a live video feed, the person on the other line is basically just doing a job. They aren't there to form any physical or emotional bond with you - they are just there to make a buck. To me, viewing internet porn isn't any worse than going with a few guys to a strip club for a bachelor party - in neither case is the goal of the action to develop a relationship with another woman.

These actions are different though - both willing members in this are actively trying to develop an emotional attachment with each other, and I think that takes it to the next level on the infidelity scale.

[ August 22, 2007, 18:48: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

Don't most marriage vows include the phrase "forsaking all others"? Wouldn't this mean no falling in love with another women would be a definite no-no...

 

Death rabbit:

What the hell does 'being fine with it' have to do with anything? The question here isn't 'whether it's fine to have an online relationship with another human', but whether 'an online relationship with another human = cheating.'

In the scenario above, my wife would be neglecting our relationship. But she would not be cheating.

Gnarff:

So if Elle MacPherson walks past a married man, and he has a few fantasies about her, then he's 'breaking his marriage vows'?

Aldeth:

What a load of ****. Earth isn't Sigil, mere belief can't shape the world around you.

 

My point was: Merely believing that something is true does not make it so.

 

Retracted.

 

Exactly.

Mountain Hare, where you are going wrong is in making the assumption that only one (your) point of view is valid. This isn't true, and the definition of "cheating" is likely to change from marriage to marriage. If you come from the point of view that it's only cheating if actual sex occurs, than obviously this man is not cheating, but there are lots of other ways to look at this.

First of all, there's no rule that says infidelity is absolutely limited to sex. Emotional relationships count as cheating in the minds of most women and quite a few men (a lot less men than women, though)....probably because sex really only plays a tiny role in a married relationship. It's one small dimension of the marriage, not the whole of it....and it isn't even the most important part. If you know the posters here fairly well, you may notice that all the married men think that this guy is cheating since he is carrying out an emotional relationship with another woman who is not his wife.....to whom he has grown emotionally unavailable....and if you do your math, you'll notice that this man a is spending far more time with his e-wife than he does with his real one.

Regarding why his wife's opinion matters when determining whether what he is doing is cheating, that's because every marriage is different. For example, having sex with someone who is not your wife isn't always cheating if you have an open marriage. When you get down to it, "breaking the rules" of your marriage is cheating....and different marriages have different rules.

 

Drew,

I don't buy this 'cheating is subjective' nonsense, because partners in abusive marriages/relationships often redefine 'cheating' in order to enslave their spouse.

I have known extraordinarily possessive husbands who claim that their wife is 'cheating' when she dresses flirtaciously or looks at another male, which often ends with a black eye. Women who have lost their virginity prior to marriage in conservative countries are seen as 'cheaters' (or more accurately, sluts).

I've also known jealous girlfriend's who will accuse their totally devoted boyfriends of 'cheating in their mind' when they look at porn. Ironically, the relationship ended because the woman herself cheated on her man.

When individuals can redefine cheating to suit their own selfish needs, then the word loses all meaning.

If you don't like what your spouse is doing, then by all means, say so! But don't attempt to attach a buzz word like 'cheating' to their behaviour, in order to stigmatize the issue.

And the rules are agreed upon by both parties, correct?

 

I think the two scenarios are basically the same thing. If you are neglecting your relationship in favor of having a relationship with someone else, then either the first relationship sucks, or you're cheating. I really can't see a third possibility - that's why most people think it's not OK to have an online relationship if you are married.

I don't think so - because you aren't falling in love with her and she isn't falling in love with you. (As an aside, why did you pick Elle MacPherson? Of all the super models out there you decided to pick one that's well past her prime. She has to be over 40 years old by now. Granted, she looks great for her age, but I'm surprised you didn't go with someone who was in her 20s.)

As others have pointed out - Drew especially - it will still impact your relationship. So if you get into an arguement with your gf or wife, it doesn't really matter whether or not you consider her belief to be valid or not - you're still dealing with an arguement. Acknowledging that, your counterarguement doesn't really get us anywhere. I can just as easily say your belief that something is true (that this scenario does not constitute cheating) does not make it so. If that's the best arguement you can make, I remain unconvinced.

They should be - although not always. If a woman considers an action to be cheating, then she certainly can say you refuses to maintain a relationship with someone who sees nothing wrong with the activity. The rules should be made known to both parties, but they don't necessarily have to be agreed to. The caveat of course is if they aren't agreed to, the relationship is probably going to end.

 

Like it or not, Mountain Hare, your last name isn't Webster. You don't own the definition of infidelity.

Let's look it up, why don't we?

Infidelity (irrelevant definitions excluded):

It's worthy of note that the definitions listed here account for both sexual and non-sexual unfaithfulness. I would also like to note that marriage counselors almost uniformly classify this type of behaviour as cheating.


Now, MH, I'm perfectly willing to accept that you don't consider it cheating and never will in any of your relationships.....but you didn't marry my wife. I did. And you can't tell my wife and I what does and does not constitute cheating. We agreed, together, on the boundaries of our relationship, as all married couples should. Where cheating is concerned, the only opinion that matters is our own.

The bottom line, MH, is that what works for you is fine. For you. Not everyone is going to see things the way you do, and they don't have to, either. The bottom line here is that whether or not this is cheating is 100% tied to your point of view. Your perception that this is not cheating is perfectly valid, and your point of view is fairly common on this issue. However, the perception that it is cheating is equally valid. Neither is empirically right. Neither is empirically wrong.

 

Drew:

No they don't. The second definition clearly states that infidelity is sexual unfaithfulness. The first definition makes no claim as to whether non-sexual acts can count as infidelity, although the 'sexual partner' is suggestive.

If you're going to try and blow my opinion (which apparently I have a right to have, and which is just as valid as yours) out of the water, you ought to choose definitions which actually support your assertions.

Stop acting as though I am obtuse.
I know what you are saying, and I don't agree.
I don't agree that the definition of 'cheating' is arbitrary.

So there is no point in repeating your claim ad nauseum, as I have made it quite clear that I believe that what qualifies as cheating is 'fixed'.

Aldeth:

So neglecting a relationship with your wife is cheating?

Is a man cheating on his wife if he devotes the vast majority of time to his work? What about if he spends the majority of his time gambling and shooting beer cans? What about if a wife looks at another man, against the wishes of her husband?

Oh wait, I forgot. What constitutes as cheating is 'arbitrary', and hence can be whatever you want it to. Hence our entire discussion is moot. How very convenient.

But you are 'cheating' on your wife in your mind. Some women believe that even sexual thoughts about another woman constitute cheating.

Because she wasn't past her prime during my mid-teen years?

Congratulations! You've just missed the clue train. Re-read my statement in its original context. It will make much more sense if you don't rip it out of its original context.

So rules in a marriage don't necessarily have to be agreed upon by both parties? Fascinating. So marriages aren't actually about compromise, but are more along the lines of one partner dictating how the other should behave.

I'll keep that in mind when I marry. When my wife looks at another man, I'll tell her that she's breaking one of the 'rules' of our marriage, and that such rule breaking amounts to cheating.
And when she protests, crying "I never agreed to that!", I'll tell her "Aldeth said that your agreement wasn't necessary, bitch!"

And then we'll both laugh at the uninformed opinion of a stranger on the forum, before she gets to the task of cooking me a pot roast.

She's quite welcome to break the relationship. However, she can't label an action 'cheating' if her spouse never agreed to those rules in the first place.

False. A contractual agreement can only exist when both parties agree to the rules specified.

 

I think a guy would brush it off as playing a game, but to a woman - this is cheating. In my experience, mental cheating with someone else can often be worse than the physical.

When I studied in Russia, I met a girl I was completely into. She was younger than me, and I met her 4 days before I was supposed to leave, but we spent just about every moment together those last days. When I returned to the States, we stayed in touch, writing letters. At least one per month.

About six months after I got back, I met a girl at home and we began seeing each other exclusively. About six months after that, she found a box in my closet full of letters in a language she couldn't read (Russian) with pictures of a pretty girl. She flipped out! Especially about the ones dated during our relationship.

I was accused of cheating, despite the fact the girl I was communicating with (in writing only) was half a world away. She didn't know what the letters contained, she only saw pictures. And that was it.

In my mind, I didn't think I would ever see the Russian girl again, but I enjoyed writing her - it kept me connected to Russia, a place I enjoyed living and learning about for a few months of my life. But to my girlfriend at the time, it was a wicked betrayal.

 

Evidently you missed this portion of Aldeth's statement, which you quoted:

The key here is the third party. The other person. Comparisons to workoholism or mere neglect are irrelevant. Most rational people would consider any romantic attachment - and yes, online romances do apply - to a third party outside of a relationship to be cheating. If you don't consider it so, then that's your choice - but I feel sorry for your girlfriends.

Try putting less energy into snark and more into absorbing and respecting the opinions and statements of others. You'll get a lot more respect around here.

And I agree with you that those women would be irrational to think so. We're men - we think about other women. It's part of our instincts. It crosses the line into cheating when we act on those impulses. The whole "cheating in your mind" concept is just insecurity on the other's part. But in this case, the online romance, there is definitely intent and romantic attachment being formed, and deliberately so - by both parties. This crosses that line.

If a philandering husband thinks it's perfectly acceptable to screw other women, and he and his wife don't lay out ground rules before their union, he's still cheating. There's a thing called common decency. Even if it's something more innocent, like online flirtation, it's still up to the man to convince the woman that he's not cheating if he doesn't believe that he is. If it's innocent, he should be able to prove it. Otherwise the woman is likely justified in feeling jilted.

The concurrent theme I seem to notice in your posts is a complete lack of empathy for the other party. Whether it's the genetic garbage of welfare or a woman in a relationship, you just don't seem to give a damn about the position of the other side of the fence. How can you ever expect to win an argument, let alone come to any kind of understanding, when you're so obtuse? I know you object to being called that, but hey - if the shoe fits...