Israel and Lebanon: the aftermath

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Israel did a lot of damage to Lebanon, but not much to Hezbollah. They also ended up looking stupid.

Hezbollah, on the other hand, did a little bit of damage to Israel, but came off looking pretty damn good and competent. You can be sure that Iran and Syria won't have any doubts that their money is being put to good use...

 

And where do you get your impartial view of the conflict, Morgoth? "Israel controls the USA" - yep, that's an unbiased claim if I ever saw one!

Stardust:

Something like that, yes.

 

The bias I have is not on the conflict, but rather on the American news and lobby system.

 

So you mean that if they were free men and women they would still murder and terrorise people for the joy of it?

 

It has to be like that, hasn't it? Why are you calling the members of the Hezbollah anything other but free? Who is oppressing them?

 

For people who think all middle eastern people are some kind of sadists and killing people for pleasure:

Have you seen at least first minute of the video that Morgoth gave a link? Israel occupies those areas illegally.

Well, you may think Hezbollah is founded in Lebanon not Palestine. But look at this:

Why did Hezbollah founded? 1982 invasion

The roots of these problems are in the history of Palestine , Lebanon and Israel. These problems all started with Establishment of Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

There are some interesting things on this page.
There are some poll results at the end of page : eighty percent of Christians polled supported Hezbollah. And:

BTW i don't support Hezbollah, i don't think everything they do and think is right. Actually i'm against most of their ideas. I just think Hezbollah is a result of what Israel did in the past. For example i don't agree this:

because i think Jews deserve a country of their own especially after the pain they lived in WWII but they shouldn't make Arabs pay for what Nazis did to them.

I wish these problems end and Arabs and Jews can live in their countries without fighting but that's impossible after so much bloodshed. Everyone wants revenge.

 

i love it when people say things like this, how can a country legally occupy an area? let me put something simple to you, every country and area is controled by force, whoever is strongest controls the area.. at home the government use a police force to enforce their rules upon average people, if you resist you get arrested, if you resist stronger you get hurt of killed..

thats life... live with it

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

"Don't poke the bear."

Hezbollah tried to play silly buggers with a more powerful nation, that nation struck back - hard - I have no sympathy for the government but much sympathy for the people who had to be led by such morons.

 

A better question would be who is not oppressing them.

We the intire westen world isolate them and give them zero influence over the world politics and ecomomy.
If they would have won the war they would have been called heros in a century.

A very intresting paradox would be:
The Palestine got hold of a very sofisticated submarine and disposed of the eintire fleet of Israel.

The US and Israel would shout terrorism as loud as they could possibly do without breaking all glass on the planet.

But would it be terrorism? I think not, why is somebody with a strange language a ugly beard and low technology weapons a terrorist and not a heroic man fighting for his right in a corrupted world?

If what is hapening in the middle east right now is terrorism, trying to make yourseld heard and claim your freedom. Because they are not free thier stare is controled by us.

Then the civil war in the US would be terrorism!

*Sigh* have you ever heard of the Geneva convention?

Besides that if i came and claimed your backyard because I had gone to the gym and was stronger than you and killed your sister would you just smile and say: that the way of things?

 

It is a good example of emphaty and I wish everybody could use empathy.

Don't whine when you are crushed by somebody stronger, even if you are right; because nobody will listen it. And after that, think the words you said.

 

But this is not the case. Hezbollah have their own nation, but they also have a grudge. They continue to attack and kill _civilians_, they just launch rockets 'in that direction' and to hell if it hits a school, a hospital or a barracks. Israel turns around and destroys where the rockets are coming from and suddenly they're the bad guys and Hezbollah are the 'heroes fighting for their freedom'?

There is NOTHING heroic about random missle attacks against a city. Israel moves small special ops forces into enemy territory to destroy enemy military targets. Hezbollah launches rockets into a city 'hoping' to hit a target. That is what has been happening. All this 'they're fighting for their freedom' is utter moo-poo. They're fighting to build up a nice heathen/child-of-those-who-wronged-us-in-the-past body count.

Land has nothing to do with this war, it's all about revenge. Both sides are guilty of it but I'll be damned before I feel sympathetic towards Hezbollah and call them 'heroes' or 'freedom fighters'.

 

I did not say something like that i just turned the tables and made a paradox and you are right it it wierd.

As for terrorists i was not refering to hizbolla that are more of a guerilla. Worth to mention is that Israel with thier selectiv targets killed over 1000 lebanese civilians.

Both are villans both lauch explisives that hurt civilians the diffrence is the quantity.
It is true as you say that hizbolla don't got any acurate weapons so they might hit whatever but Israel still hit schools and hospitals with thier state of the art weapons.

 

This topic has strayed too far into the region of cantankerousness. The opinions are legion, but the fruitlessness of such discussions is always depressing. I feel that only one thing matters in this conflict:

How to solve this conflict. Never mind who stroke first, never mind who illegally invaded Quebec or similar. Israel is there and has been for decades. Let's deal with it, let us not whine about how Israelis didn't belong there in the first place. They certainly belong there now - and personally I think that it is for the better for the whole region, let alone the whole world. It is the only democratic country in the midst of autocratic nations. Eradicate Israel from the map - and what have you got? Peace on earth? You wish! Ahmedi Nedschad, for example, castigates all western nations for their decadence...

The rest of the dispute is usually rooted in the belief whether or not Israel has a right of existence. Everything starts there and leads to the ideas that (e.g.)
* terrorists are freedom fighters,
* terrorists accidentally kill civilians,
* Israel's primary goal is to kill civilians,
* western nations are wrongfully isolating terrorist organizations,
* terrorists are an innocent product of what others did in the past.

All these points make a certain sense if viewed in the light of Israel being a bullying nation of thugs. I, however, don't think that any of these are true. Because I think that Israel today is as legitimate a nation as Canada.

If we could agree upon this one question, we would share some common ground to debate whether or not Israel's attacks and retaliations are proportionally.

What I fear, though, is that many people simply share the fundamental belief that Israel should be wiped from the map - and lack a certain courage to declare this clearly and distinctly.

 

Sure Israel has been around for a while now, but what about any Palestanians that have lost their homes that are still alive? What about the Arabs that are still being kicked out of their villages to make room for more Russian/American/European Jews?

 

That's a good example of what I mean, Cúchulainn. What are you saying with your questions? Do you think that Israel is legitimate as a nation but could have handled things a bit better in the past (or could handle them better today)? Or is your view that Israel is illegitimate and continues to occupy Palestine without any right whatsoever? Then why don't you say so?

 

Israel didn't do anyting wrong in the begining if this conflict I think it was the UN which din't sit dow and have a think of what could have happened if they took a part of a country which allready had been claimed.

I do not blame Israel for this. It was a prompt made chioce in a appempt to make up for what happened to the Jews during WW II.

 

Yes, but Israel launchs rockets to schools, hospitals etc. directly, they know where they are launching rockets. And it makes them more guilty.

As I continue to learn what they did in the last 50-60 years, I think world will be a better place without Israel's existence in middle east. US could give them one or two states to establish if they love Israel so much.

 

I like your ideas. Since they're the only democratic country in the midst of autocratic nations why doesn't USA save them from there. Since they represent western civilisation they would be happier in the most western country.

 

the geneva convention is the biggest load of crap ever constructed, there is only one way to win a war - wipe out the opposition

nope, i would get a shotgun and blow your head off hence making me stronger

 

Mitigating circumstances that you forgot to mention. Hezbollah are using said civilian buildings as launch-pads for attacks, when a civilian building fires armaments it is no longer a civilian building but a military building. The moment people start to fire weapons from a building it is a viable target, especially when weapons fired from said building are hitting civilian buildings.

It is cowardly and wrong to fire upon your opposition from a civilian area then cry foul when there is civilian collateral and I will never support any faction that hides behind walls of their own people while firing outwards.