Israel vs Lebanon: Deliberate Targetting of UN Positions, Red Cross?

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Snook... no, that I am not implying. I kinda said that Israel, with its inhumane ways with people's lifes is the last to find fault with suicide bombings in cafes and boulevards. Or having their children targeted. Because that is the spirit they spread among their victim's families, and unerringly it will return to its source. Just as this conflict is a product of that spirit - Hizbollah as a consequence of Israel's misadventure in Lebanon back then. Just as this crime here will again turn against Israel. They havent forcibly stopped anything, not now, not then - and I would like to know when Israel ever has done nothing.

Perhaps if they just tried to keep civilian casualties to the possible minimum, instead of having all the dimished families swear vengeance, would I anticipate rational thought behind the nation Israel. As it is they are murderers, throwing away the lifes of innocents with impunity. But they can always count on those who emphasize war in war crime.

And, please, do not hold the blathering of al Qaeda against anyone when talk is about Israel's massacring a civilian population, busily sending new enthusiasts over to bin Laden.

@Aldeth, thanks for the link and all. I had really no idea there was so much death in Iraq.

 

All of these groups are the exact same, with the exact same goals and methods. The only difference is the name and the players.

 

So, it makes the civilians in Israel as guilty and evil as their army. And it is not illegal in ISRAEL law. I wonder, do you really believe your words are true? When your homeland is under invasion, maybe you can say "Yes, take half of my country and we will live in peace" but I can't. If my homeland is under invasion, I will fight until no enemies left in my country. I'm not as ready as you to give my country to invaders.
And it happened in my country about 85 years ago. Powerful and insolent invaders tried to take my homeland but after 3 years of war; my people made them regret it, they escaped without looking to their back. It is what must be done: defend your homeland at all costs and make the enemy regret it very heavily. And I want to say one more thing: Please, don't tell me Israel is trying to defend their homeland, because Mideast is Arab's homeland, not Israel's.

 

And you think there arent quite large groups in Israel that wants a great Israel, ie all of biblical Israel and dnot want any dirty Arabs within what they see is their own territory? As has been mentioned before, it was an Israeli who killed Rabin and he killed hmi because he tried to create peace.

Supporting Israel and laying all the blame on one side is like the pot calling the kettle black. They are nutjobs with the mindsets of three year olds fighting in the sandbox.

As has been stated so many tmies before, force has been tried, again and again and again. Diplomacy have yielded results, limited and quickly undone but things have happened. What have weapons and massacre yielded the Israelis?

 

At the moment a definate reduction in the number of attacks against their lands...

I realise Israel has killed civilians although I would never call these killings intentional. An underequipped foe is quite happy to hide in civilian structures and throw armaments at their opposition and cry foul when their civilian buildings are destoryed. The moment a building fires a shot at another country it is a MILITARY building. Don't want certain buildings destroyed? Then don't fire at enemies from them.

This is war, in war people die. If you're close to where the bullets are flying you'll probably die. Best idea is to not be there.

 

This view implies a world devoid of power structures and politics in which it is possible to prevent everything the police/whatever law enforcement has knowledge of. There have been times since Hoover turned the FBI into a information gathering machine in which the FBI had knowledge of events but for whatever reason never acted. The same happens with the law enforcement or military of other nations where they know what is bound to happen but are unable to act.

It happens within the U.S. legal system where laws prevent our FBI and local officers from dealing with culprits because the law does not allow them to, or the political sentiments at the time is against the cops cutting legal corners.

Lebenan does not have the luxury of simply acting against a group like Hezbollah which technically is legitimate political party with in Lebanon. Terrorists like the IRA have done the same thing, you can't attack political parties if you insist you are a republic (like Lebanon does).

This follows the same basic rules of the American Neo-Nazi Party. The followers of this party do generate a lot of hate and various other violent crimes, but so long as the party remains within certain bounds it isn't responsible for the actions of it's followers (even though it does instigate their violence).

 

@Blackthorne TA: I don't care about world body. In my eye it is Arab's stolen homeland, whether you like it or not.

 

The implication that Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah and the rest are basically the same is pretty dodgy if you ask me - both claim to have no contact with each other and are indeed opposed to each other (Hezbollah being Shi'a, al Qaeda being Sunni...). To quote from the wiki article:
'Zarqawi issued an audio recording where he called the Hezbollah an "enemy of Sunnis" and a "shield" for Israel,[87][88] for protecting Israel by preventing Palestinian attacks from Lebanon.'

From my rather limited research it doesn't seem that Hezbollah are much of a terrorist organisation. They deny pretty much every terrorist attack attributed to them - and seeing that the ones doing the accusing are rather biased (primarily being the US and Israel) I'm doubting how much 'terrorism' features in their tactics.

But if someone wants to prove this impression wrong you're more than welcome - I'm open to being persuaded that they're the evil bastards people keep telling me they are.

 

Vehement repetition of your opinion doesn't make it fact. We get your point, now move on and add something substantive to the debate at hand.

 

Does anyone actually think that Israel can "win" against Hamas and Hizbollah, and achieve peace in the region through this military offensive? I admit that my historical knowledge of other countries is not a strong point, but similar examples that come to mind have all been failures - at least in the long term. Can anyone provide an example where it has worked?

Why do Hamas and Hizbollah have such strong local support? Is it because of a general hatred for Israel? or is it because they have provided schools, hospitals and support to the local inhabitants?

The only way I can see to truely defeat terrorism is to marginalise the terrorists. Take away their support by providing for the needs of the general population. People are hardly going to bite the hand that feeds if it their only source of education and health care, but if they can't see any extra benefit from supporting Hamas and Hizbollah then extremists will find themselves being turned in.
I know it is not Israel or anyone elses responsibility to stump up the required money and expertise, but I wonder how things might have been different if they had.

 

Actually I think Israel does not really hope to destroy Hamas by themselves. What they must want is to weaken it enough so that the Lebanese government can impose some order in the border region (with UN suport, most likely).

That, and to eliminate the Hezbollah arsenal, to some extent. I was not previously aware that Hezbollah had some 16,000 rockets. Living with such a heavily armed enemy nearby must have been pretty uncomfortable for the Israeli.

 

Let's be fair. The land was taken from the Palestinians. That they were a nomadic people is irrelevant to the fact that the land that was theirs before 1948 was taken away from them without their consent.

Folks on the Palestinian side of the fence need to be fair, too. This happened over 50 years ago. Sending second generation Israelis away is not plausible or fair. Regardless of the manner in which it was created, after over 50 years, Israel has every bit as much right to exist in that land as Palestine. Israel and Palestine are going to have to learn to live together.

 

.. or manage to wipe one of the other out. Whichever comes first.

 

Wouldn't work. The UN would never allow it to go that far.

 

LOL, you are correct. I'm sure they would pass another resolution.

 

Passing resolutions doesn't work either. Israel violates them just as often as Palestine. If it came to a genocidal war, the UN would simply intervene with a police action.

 

please stop repeating the biggest lie of them all.
the one about all of these poor "Palestinian" refugees.
The reality is that the concept of “Palestinians refugees” is one that did not exist until about 1948, when the Arab inhabitants of what until then was Palestine, wished to differentiate themselves from the Jews. Until then, the Jews were the Palestinians. There was the Palestinian Brigade of Jewish volunteers in the British World War II Army (at a time when the Palestinian Arabs were in Berlin hatching plans with Adolf Hitler for world conquest and how to kill all the Jews); there was the Palestinian Symphony Orchestra (all Jews, of course); there was The Palestine Post, and so much more.

The Arabs, who now call themselves “Palestinians,” do so in order to persuade a misinformed world that they are a distinct nationality and that “Palestine” is their ancestral homeland. But, of course, they are no distinct nationality at all. They are entirely the same — in language, customs, and tribal ties — as the Arabs of Syria, Jordan, and beyond. There is no more difference between the “Palestinians” and the other Arabs of those countries than there is between, say, the citizens of North Carolina and Virginia.

What's more, many of the “Palestinians,” or their immediate ancestors, came to the area attracted by the prosperity created by the Jews, in what previously had been pretty much of a wasteland.

Remember , Israel did not force these individuals to leave, they were told to leave by the invading armies of the nations attacking the newly formed jewish state. Not so ,all of the jews that had to flee most of the surrounding arab countries with just the clothes on their backs , leaving behind homes,businesses, bank accounts etc..

on a seperate but related topic
how many times is Jerusalem mentioned in the koran ?
not once.

i find this strange if, as the opponents of israel claim, jerusalem is the third most important site in the islamic culture. you kinda think it would have made into their holiest text at least once.
whereas, it is mentioned (& at great length) hundreds of times in the jewish holy texts.

on the topic of hezbollah, if they are such a poor unequipped group, how can they afford a stockpile of missles worth at least 50 million dollars ( approx. 16000 missles x $3000 = 48 million) this is a lowball price for the cheapest type they have been shown to possess.

I personally cant see how anyone can support an organization that advocates suicide bombers.

check out break.com and do a search for "pallywood". it's a clip from 60 minutes from about 4 yrs ago showing the "palestinians" staging news footage of "attacks" and fake funerals for dissemination to the world news organizations. real funny watching the guy with the m16 wait for the action call to run up and fire into the hole in the wall

 

Even if Israel manages to wipe out the Palestinian rival, or were to bomb a buffer zone of uninhabited land surrounding its territory - the Israelis would still not come out as a permanent victor of this. Pardon the melodrama, but the Europeans are a dying people, replaced by Muslims. For example, in a few years about half the population under 18 in the Netherlands will be Muslims. Once the old-Europeans are gone - or sufficiently marginalized - the replacements will have at their disposal all of Europe's technologies, industrial base and weapons. France in particular has an impressive arsenal. That ought to be the end of Israel. And who knows what it will bring for the USA.

A crass thought, hm?