JoePa - Moral Obligations in Child Sexual Assault Cases

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I'll have to look this up. My impression was that even if you reported it to the police, they would then report it to the abuse/neglect people or tell you to do so. Maybe it would be stronger coming from the police, but I thought the whole point of having the hotline was so that it could go straight to the right people, rather than going through the police, who have a lot of other cases to consider. If it's the opposite, the way you describe, I don't know why they'd have a hotline. It seems like if the police were the ones investigating on the spot, we would want to go directly to them, rather than have the message rerouted through the hotline. This is definitely something to keep in mind.

Certainly, when a crime is in action or if there is visible evidence still present, the police could investigate on the spot (or break the crime up), but hearing about it after the fact? And from someone who says, "XX person said that YY other person was raping a kid"? Yeah, that's a serious crime, but unless Joe had other evidence besides McQueary, I'm not sure the police would do anything other than giving the message to the abuse/neglect people or referring Joe back to them. Maybe they would talk to McQueary, though.

Now, I hadn't considered publicity, but you can get a lot of people to pay attention to things through the media. Since he seems to be so well known, I think he would have been able to get action on the case by taking it to the media if no action came as a result of his report to his supervisor. By making an issue of the fact that crimes were NOT being investigated, I think the investigators might decide to actually step up to the plate and do their jobs.

I guess I feel like a terrible person now (not because of your comments but because of what I'm realizing about myself). Much of this stuff is stuff I'd never have thought of if I'd been in the same position. I likely would have just followed the usual procedures, and if nothing happened, ask my supervisor about it. I don't think I would have gone to the police knowing that the abuse/neglect people had been alerted. I definitely wouldn't have thought of going through the media. These other options . . . I don't know if I would have thought of them. I have a lot of book smarts, but very little common sense. I didn't realize until now how much that can hurt other people (although I've always been aware of what a problem it is for me personally: so many people ask me: Why didn't you think of X, Y, Z?).

 

The problem with that is the head of the university police.... was the VP of the university. (And yes, at Penn State the Campus Police is an actual police precinct with real police officers.) In fact, the Campus Police has a larger number of officers than the town of State College - outside of the actual Penn State Campus.

Yeah, it really looks like they thought they had all their bases covered. They ensured if they didn't say anything and report it outside the university, nothing was going to happen.

And the other thing is that even if they didn't know the details, they knew Sandusky was in the shower with kids. How is it ever OK for a grown man to be involved in a bath or shower with a young boy? (Unless it's a really young kid and you're his father giving him a bath. I've done that with my son - but nobody else's kid!)

 

I guess it all depends on who's on the other end of the hotline. If it's something like the child welfare agency, they may have their own special investigators (though I'm sure if they're considered real law enforcement officers) who follow up on reports, but I would think that those are generally not emergency level situations - moreso just for suspicions of child neglect, etc. If you think a serious crime has been or is being committed, the police are your go-to people. I assume that if you called a hotline and told them a child was being molested, they would in turn call the police.

At any rate, the only government entities that enforce laws and prosecute criminals are police departments and prosecutors' offices, so ultimately it's going to be a police matter regardless. And it's not like the FBI or a special federal task force would handle it; criminal sexual activity is almost always handled locally as far as I'm aware.

And no, don't think of yourself as a terrible person. I highly doubt that you would stand by and do nothing more than call a hotline if you saw a child being raped.

Pretty much. I hate to be a 'haranguer,' but come on, what more do we really need to know to come to a reasonable conclusion? It's not like Freeh was just idly speculating about this stuff.

 

The university took down the statue. It was becoming "divisive", apparently.

 

The NCAA sanctions are pretty hefty -- $60 million fine and vacate all wins from 1998 to 2011 (although I don't know of anything the vacated wins do to the school).

 

What about the JoePa Library? Shouldn't be anything left with his name on it, imo.

Ironically, the lost wins would seem to harm the student players over those years more than anyone else. Pointless gesture to 'not allow' them. Pretending that something that happened didn't happen seems silly.

 

I personally think this is an overreaction. This kind of response will simply ensure future violations are kept as quiet as possible. Perhaps thay can make a spin that it was the coverup that caused the heavy handed punishment -- but it will be interpreted as 'getting caught will be punished.' Don't get me wrong here -- I think the authorities should continue to pursue charges on those involved. But let law enforcement take care of illegal activities, the NCAA should be focused elsewhere.

 

The money will be recouped from alumni. PSU alumni organization is a vast group with oopen checkbooks. Which is fine with me, as it will soften the impact this heavy-handed punishment will inflict on the students, who will end up bearing the brunt of the punishment. Spanier, Schulz and Curley are ousted. Paterno is dead. I realize punishment needs to be served, I just wonder if there is a better way to met it out. Was this really a football program issue or a legal matter....

 

$60 million will be just the beginning. The civil lawsuits may be more.

 

Yep. Bobby Bowden will be the offical NCAA winningest coach, for whatever that is worth.

 

Yeah, I heard that too. It's a bit like saying Barry Bonds hasn't hit the most home runs. Steroids or no, he was in all those games, and he hit them. Likewise, all those games Paterno coached and won actually occurred. You don't just wave your hand and make them go away. Better to say something like "we are taking away your winningest coach certificate!" That would reflect how silly it actually is.

I agree all this posturing doesn't really matter though. It's a criminal matter and it's rightly being handled by the courts, not the NCAA in any globally significant sense. They can scurry around carrying out their little maneuvers and plots, but it's akin to getting a 'form 86a2-VF' write-up for running somebody over at work with a bulldozer ... you've got bigger problems.

 

Extra silly since teh guy's dead. He went to his grave as the winningest coach ... doesn't really matter to him now.

 

I disagree. In that case, there would at least be a link between steroid use and home runs, so it would be reasonable to wipe the HR's off Bonds' record. But in this case, to get rid of the wins only makes sense if the wins were somehow the result of Sandusky's rapes (or maybe Paterno's ignoring the rapes). And that is clearly not the case.

 

The MLB Black Sox scandal and the removal of their stats from the books is a better comparison. Either way, it nows puts the dreaded * next to Bowden's name as the "He's not really the echamp but here he is at the top of the list becuase we have a bug up our butt" designation, like Bonds and the other roid users now have in the eyes of the media.