Life after death

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This religiongame might become usefull

 

Hmm I bit two bullets, one about inner moral convictions and about if god exist if he can do anything. Pretty nifty test.

 

The idea you're looking for, Amon-Ra, is that God drew the definition of good from His own nature. In other words, actions in accordance with His own nature are good.

You have to remember, God created the natural system and thus the natural order of things. So what you term "societal truths" are direct outward expressions of God's own inner truth. The universe being a creative expression of God's nature, it's only to be expected that His definition of good (if you wish to look at it that way) will be the best for the society that He created.

Haven't tried that religion game yet, and I'm out of time. Bye for now.

 

if God did "good" things, why would he do that??

 

The religion game is internally contradicting. Messes up cathegories, plainly speaking.

 

I am a christian and i do believe there is life after death, in heaven. Im positive that evolution isnt true with all the scientific facts and so many ways they have proven it wrong. (If you want to talk and yell at me or ask questions my email is meganburd@msn.com) I believe that there is only one way to heaven and eternal life, and that is through God.>> Believe and be baptised every one of you then you shall be saved. << thats a verse from the 'real' Bible. For people that believe in Christ but dont follow the Bible i have one question for you... If you believe that Jesus is real, then why arent the rest of the parts of the Bible true and real? Somethin to think about there. I believe the only way to be forgiven of your sins, yes everyone sins, is to ask, and try your hardest not to do it again. Also, no purgatory, no buying your way out of it. And that hell is not a set thing , everyone isnt going to hell if your bad. It wasnt even made for humans, it was made for satan and his angels, because they tried to overthrow God.
But god is giving you a gift, and if you dont except it your breaking his heart. and i see it as your following satan, so you become one of his followers, and burn in hell, sorry for going out so straight, but thats what i think. oh yeah and god CREATED the universe, in six days, rested on the seventh, and he created us in his own image, thats why we have love, because chaos certainly didnt create love, and if love comes from the left side of your brain, who created that? and who made the dna? certainly not primordial soup
that is nothing creating something. the second law of thermodynamics says entropy increases, so slop couldnt create everything.
~Megsta~

[ January 19, 2003, 21:21: Message edited by: megsta_kitty ]

 

@megsta_kitty

Because you haven´t answered my original question, let me ask it again:

You said God created the universe, who created God??
If you´re going to answer that God always excisted and therefore was not created, then how can God excist??
If you´re saying that God was created out of nothing, then you´re going against your former argument.
If you´re saying that God was created, then what right do we have to call the created God, God?
And if you´re jumping on the "proof is not necessary bandwagon", then you just have shown you don´t know the answer and just hide behind your blind belief

But.. to be fair, I´m showing my "afterlife" version to everyone here so that anyone can throw arguments, bash it, so I can defend it and find my own mistakes (with your help) and therefore improve my version:

There´s is no afterlife, when I die I become nothing, I can´t see, hear, think, or be.
I won´t wail about the missed changes since I´m nothing, I don´t have to do anything in this life to achieve nothing, save dieing. I don´t believe in God, nor I ever felt his presence so why should I?

Edit:
humping/jumping.. big difference

[ January 20, 2003, 15:35: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

I believe that when I die, or you die, that you will go to the place that you believe you will go to. If you believe in Heaven and Hell, then you will go to whichever you should go to based on your actions, if you are atheist, ie myself, it will be like you are sleeping, if you are Native American and have not converted to Christianity or whatever, then you will go with your god(s) when you die, if you are egyptian and believe in Ra (sp?), then you will ride down the river of (sorry, I forgot the name of it at the moment) then Ra will judge you on your actions and it will be just like your religious tradition dictates. Whew, that was a lot of writing & everybody won!! alrite!
@megsta_kitty - If you don't believe in Jesus, then you just use the Old Testament which was the "real" Bible I believe, or am i wrong? somebody plz correct me if I'm wrong on this. The New Testament is just an appendage of the Old Testament that includes "new truths". Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you or anything, just what I have read, heard, and watched.

 

Pascal's Wager: Atheists believe that when they die, they die. Believers believe that when they die, they go to heaven (or what else have you). What does an atheist have to lose by believing in something? He can either accept what he believes in and either become dead matter (if he is right) or go to hell, or otherwise some worse afterlife (if he is not right).

In other words, if atheism is right, this world woudl be quite a hopeless and sorrowful place. Why doesn't everyone just lay down, die, and get it over with then?

---

And as a Christian, I see evolutionism and science in general as perfectly acceptable and hardly contradictory to my religion.

 

It's useless to try and prove God's nonexistence through logical claims of how "if he is this, then he cannot do this, for if he can do this then he is not this". That was referring to what has earlier been said here. Fighting over this matter will get you nowhere for the entire point of a possible God is that it's supposed to be so much over us that we can't even begin to comprehend it. So, you make something up which the devoted christian cannot find an explanation or a counterclaim for? He'll just answer "well I'm nothing but a human so I wouldn't understand why there's a conflict, but God knows". You can't use any arguments against something like that.

As far as the good vs. evil goes, I'm sure any one of you (even the ones that seek to blind themselves) can come up with a number of situations where the attempt to do good will result in evil. Or vice versa. Where's the line for when intentions mark more than consequences changes to consequences over intentions? It's illogical to argue over good and evil, when obviously most forms of these both cannot be realised by man.

There was a story once, which I read. It was a christian story of a man and his sons. For some reason, the story -though christian- told that the man had committed such sins that there was no way he could be saved from the fires of hell. His one last request, as he realised his mistake and came to accept his doom, was that God would show an angel to his sons to prove them that He does exist, and so save them from the same fate he would have. And God's answer was: "If your sons do not believe in me now, they will not do so even if I were to show them a message, as they would merely find another explanation for it and blind their eyes from the truth." I thought it was a wise thing to say at the time. But when you think of it, it's the same with all things. It has nothing to do with religion or the God, only us humans. Someone who completely believes in her religion and God, will not accept any amount of counterproof to deny her God's existence. No matter what you would show, for the God is omnipotent, and any proof saying otherwise is simply an example of how she, a mere human, cannot comprehend what is going on. Just as a person who believes in science will believe that there is a logical and scientifically provable explanation to every single thing there can be. No matter how you show her the existence of paranormal, or prove to her that her logics cannot know all things, she will merely think that she does not have the information. That she cannot understand, but she KNOWS there is an explanation, she just doesn't understand it yet.

It's a human trait to be as stubborn as an ass, and everyone has something that they believe in over all else. There is always that something for every man and woman that is the basis for all their beliefs, visions of world, and their own ego. When you try to destroy such a thing, you'll invariably fail. And when you succeed, assuming you'll not break that person completely, you'll risk changing the entire personality of the individual, not always for the better.

 

@Capstone: How can you be so sure that the universe is God's creative expression, and not his sadistic game? As I see it, God did a pretty piss-poor job creating us "flawed" individuals- or maybe, he likes watching us squirm. Is it so unfathomable?

@C'Jakob: Are you saying that unless you have INFINITE time to live, life isn't worth living? Then why wouldn't you want to drop dead right now? Your afterlife is waiting for you. Get it over with? Why get it over with? I'm having fun, I'm enjoying life, you know, that thing that to you is only a proving grounds, to me- my one shot, my one life, and I'm going to live it to the fullest.

I am happy, I don't know how else to say that. I'm an atheist, and I'm happy. I'm not miserable, there's no reason for me to be miserable. I don't feel empty, and as I've said before- an idea worth considering, the atheists I've met treasure life far more than anyone else I know.

Ponder: to whom is water more precious, he with but a few drops, or he who bathes in the ocean?

Amon-Ra

 

If I go to heaven when I die, why don't I just kill myself? Two reasons.

First being that I oppose killing. Of any kind. Even suicide to get to heaven.

Secondly, and more importantly, I have doubts. I'm human. I'm simply not able to stand up with 100% conviction and say that I believe in what I believe in. I admit it: I'm afraid; I have no idea what the afterlife will really be like. All I have is faith. To be honest, I don't want to die - it scares me.

If you believe that what you have - only 75 years on this place, then it's "poof!", I think that you have found nothing to place hope or anticipation. You're only trusting what you can see, not what you can believe.

 

Because I rather live this life, my only life, than waste it by crawling through dust in hope for
a better afterlife.

If you´re really that afraid of afterlife, then why don´t you follow all the other religions, just to play safe, as changes put it, you have now less than 0,5% to reach heaven.

Because everyone is believing in an afterlife

The world without God is what you make of it, I want to fullfill my life before I lay down and die, just to prevent to become depressed

[ January 20, 2003, 15:37: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

@c'Jakob: Suicide is still a murder, so not the best way to go to Heaven anyway. It's also rejecting what God gave you and surrendering to obstacles.

 

Chevalier: That's right. I agree.

Of course, assuming that does get you to heaven.

 

Amon-Ra, your last quote tickled me to death.

Now what did you mean by that? I've heard a similar quote from the Bible -- goes something like "Who would love his master the most: the one to whom little was forgiven, or the one to whom much was forgiven?"

But let me twist it around again: who will get the most out of heaven -- us or the angels? Surely those who have experienced suffering and pain will have the greatest enjoyment of peace and comfort. God created choice. And because we can choose, we appreciate the effects of our choices so much more. But if God had created everything "perfect" and never allowed evil to develop, we just might be taking heaven for granted. Perhaps that might seem a little repugnant to you due to all the suffering going on in the world, but let me remind you that God is not responsible for people choosing evil. He simply gave them the choice and left it up to them.

Morgoth: God is eternal. No beginning. No end. He didn't have to be created; He is the Creator.

Foradasthar: You're quite correct. But the fact is, any sort of understanding of the world MUST be hung on a framework that is at its foundation a matter of belief. It's not just stubbornness; it's required. And naturally changing the foundational belief that your perspective of the world rests on changes you completely. It's only to be expected.

 

The universe is eternal, so God was created during the Big Bang, who created the universe?

[ January 21, 2003, 13:42: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

Since when is the universe eternal? Can you prove that one?

 

The universe is both space and time, you can´t divide the two, since how do you want to measure time without space and space without time?

If God wanted to create this universe, he had to act within his own space and time, which are affecting only Him, meaning God lives in his own universe, who created the universe in which God lives?

To your last question:
Eternal is till the end of time, time too has an end, when the universe collapses, time will collapse too.

[ January 21, 2003, 20:17: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

As a Muslim,I believe in god and afterlife
And you don't need to prove if God exists,the universe haven't popped in the middle of nowhere.