Life after death

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@Aikanaro: One isn't necessarily narrow-minded just because he doesn't admit you're right. everyone has the right to his own opinion. Also what seems logical to you doesn't necessarily seem logical to other persons. The Christian you're arguing with could also see the situation like that you don't accept his obvious to him reasons. Discussion doesn't mean everyone taking your points as his or being dumb otherwise.

 

I never said that he was narrow minded, but I can see no point in arguing with someone who will find some weird answer that possibly will make no to little sense to me, and my answers the same (I think) to him

 

When the gazillion flies say "sh*t is good", then it is good. No matter how you try, you can't convince them otherwise.

This was not an attempt to make myself an idiot by throwing a lame comment at christians. It was simply to show a fact that not always are your views and beliefs of the world close enough to strike a mutual understanding, if not acceptance. Sometimes you have to be satisfied with merely understanding that you cannot understand. Eh?

 

Aikanaro,
Sorry if it didn't come across as clear. You either choose to follow God or ignore God. Choosing not to believe in Him, falls under ignoring him. Since Satan wants you to do anything but follow God, anything but following God is choosing to follow Satan, either directly or indirectly, whether you realize it or not. But the point is you are given the choice, and it will affect you for eternity. So choose wisely.

 

I do indeed believe in a life after death. Be it Heaven or Hell, depending on which I've earned.

To those of you who do not believe in an after life, what would you say happens to our consciousness after we die? This concept is almost impossible for me to convey in words, but I'll try: Remember in your mind, a dream, any dream, think of what happened once the dream was over. You woke up, and then the reality of your dream was gone. Can you remember what happened between the dream and your awakening? No. There was nothing, no thought, no consciousness, NOTHING. Now try to imagine eternity as nothing. As a dreamless sleep from which you never awaken. Imagine your life as a dream. Your life, like any dream, will end. What happens next? Do you wake up in an after life, or is there nothing awaiting you? Think of how short your lifetime is, compared to the rest of the universe. A human lifetime is less than a blink of an eye; A short dream in a long sleep. Can you honestly imagine NOT waking up?

 

Because IMO there´s no afterlife and I wont be waking up, whats there to imagine?

Edit:
I seem to have missed a part about Satan and free chioice

Q: Did God gave his angels free choice?

[ January 25, 2003, 15:12: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

I'm interested why you people seem to think that this god of yours is the one true god when there have been hundreds of gods in the past that have pretty much been dismissed as false. The only thing you realy have to go buy is your book which has been changed so many times by your church that much of it is not the same as it once was.
I've even heard of a passing mention of a book before Genisis which I have come to gather would be about the Nefilum (sp) and Niberu. There is apparently a mention of Niberu in Genisis as well, a planet that seems to be involed of quite a few other religions.
So this book of yours is not much to go by, as it is realy, realy screwed up
And what if you just sleep in, eternaly

[ January 25, 2003, 15:34: Message edited by: Aikanaro ]

 

Could you please tell me where in Genesis I can find 'Nefilum and Niberu'?

 

No I can't, but I have been told that there is a reference to Niberu in there

 

Religion is such an interesting thing.Over the centuries there have been thousands of religions all convinced they are right.I never understood how Christians can look at theirs and think we are correct but laugh about how silly the egyptian gods were or the Greeks or the romans ect ect...
Please dont qoute bible verses to me all the aboove mentioned religions had their own versions as well and you discount them.
I am not trying to knock your beliefs you are entitled to them however please dont think that you are beyond reproach because you have been saved or whatever.The bottom line here is no one knows for sure.Just because you beleive something doesnt mean it is true.Remember when most of the world beleived the world was flat.
To me the main promblem with religion is it becomes like an exclusive club,believe like we do and you will be saved,dont and into the the fires of hell with you.
It seems religion causes more trouble than it stops.Just one more thing for us silly humans to kill each other over.Look at all the wars fought over religion.
Besides it creates such convient arguments.If something good happens it is because God wills it.If something bad happens it is because we have free will.
Dont get me wrong I'm sure it helps many people get through life a little better and if it gives more meaning to your life more power to you.However I will live my life as a good person and try to do more good than harm while I am here,and face whatever happens when I die when I get there.

 

Why does that Niberu remind me of the Niburu that's supposedly going to end the world somewhere in the summer this year? Search with google and you'll find it.

 

Yup, its gonna destroy the planet in four months, apparently we're going to have another ice age

"But how do we know its an ice age?"
"Because, of all, the ice!"

 

Its a hoax duuuh

 

I suppose it was always more practical for the lesser-classes to find a reason to be hating eachother than to be violently discontent with government and such.

 

Alright, how about this can of worms...reincarnation? I see there's another topic on that (it very likely popped out from here, but I haven't been following along).

Anyways, the theory (as I know it, but not necessarily as I adhere to it...because I don't) is that you are reborn again and again, spending a short time resting in the Summerland between each life, until eventually you learn all the lessons life has to teach you, and then...? Well, we don't know do we. You stay infinitely in the Summerland? You move on to a higher plane of existence? Search me.

Now I am only stating this as a point-of-view -- it is not necessarily my point-of-view, because I currently really have no idea what I believe in, if anything. But you've got to admit, it's as plausible as any other proposition on the market.

No heaven or hell for me. I don't do Christianity, that much I know...whatever Divinity exists, if such a thing does, it is infinitely loving, infinitely perfect, infinite...and stuff. If there is a Satan, God (who is, by definition, infinite remember?) should CONTAIN him. So really, heaven? Hell? Temptation? Why would an infinitely loving divinity give us the chance to descend into eternal pain?

 

Don't know if you've read this whole topic, but there was a discussion about the matter of choice. Basically, the fact that you have a choice (and have experienced what evil can be) makes you appreciate heaven that much more...

Your description of a divine being contradicts itself -- no such god could exist in this world. For an "infinite" god (such that all that existed did exist in him) would contain all the evil that this world has known, which I would think would not be anything like what you want to believe in.

I'll just say this: since when does love preclude punishment?

 

I would agree that such a God contains infinite darkness, infinite light, infinite cruelty and infinite compassion. Everything. I don't much distinguish between good and evil; they're all a part of the cosmic whole I suppose. We don't have to like it for it to be necessary to existence.

 

Capstone, I wouldn't say love precludes punishment. Would it be fair to say love precludes disproportionate punishment though? Is infinite punsihment for a finite crime proportionate? Curious to hear thoughts on this.

 

Capstone:

Want? So even though it might be true, don't give it consideration because it isn't a pleasant thought?

Odd...

This was exactly my previous point- what if, should God exist, he is both good and evil at once, or even worse, he is evil and only tricks us into struggling toward good ends so that he might see us squirm?

Both not very pleasant thoughts, but do they not merit any form of consideration because of that? Or at least equal plausibility?

 

Morgoth, you missed my point completely. There is something to imagine: nothingness. Picture an eternal void, in which you can't think, feel or act. If this is too difficult, then I suggest you find a Bible or Torah or Bhagavad'Gita or something, because you're gonna need it (whether you believe this or not).

Aikanaro, do you seriously understand what you're saying? I know I must sound like an ass, but it's a much harder concept to wrap your mind around than most people can understand.
Also, I've seen several of your critiques of the others' beliefs and arguments here, but (on this page at least) you haven't made any decent arguments of yours yet.

Amon-Ra, In a word, "No." Can you provide anything even somewhat legitimate to back this up? No. God is good. Satan is evil. We, are both good and evil, but tend more towards one than the other. If God is both good and evil, then we've nothing to worry about, because then our actions cannot be punished for being good or bad, because God has done both; he can't punish us for doing the same things he's done. Therefore, there would be absolutely no need for laws or order or morals in our society, since everyone would be too busy giving in to their most carnal pleasures.

To those of you who don't believe in an afterlife, here's an interesting question: *Why* don't you believe in an afterlife? Can you provide a rational answer? (If you feel that I have not, then please say so and I will do my best to provide you with a rational answer)