Mind Flayers are the hardest creatures in either game

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There's a download somewhere on this site where you can get a better Lilarcor... one that protects from intelligence drain. Of course, I'd probably just get a bunch of them via Shadow Keeper and cheese it.

 

I agree with, Mordekainens Sword works very well on Illithids, as well as any other creatures.
Summon them, send them into the fight, and watch them slice the Flayers in to tiny, small pieces at a distance.

 

I don't understand how something that makes sense if you were really in the world of the game (as opposed to playing the game) and doesn't employ actual cheating can be cheese.

I can accept that setting traps around a dragon who is neutral is cheese. They would see you and avoid them.

Sneaking a thief ahead to scout, placing traps and luring the enemy to the trap is exactly what I'd do if it were my actual life on the line. Similarly scouting forward and getting a thief to throw a spell further than the MOB can see you from and then closing the door on them seems like a pretty freak'n good idea to me.

I don't see how useing the magical swords would consitute cheese because I can't think of how they shouldn't really work the way the game makes them work, or how they take advantage of some quirk in the game that wouldn't be there if the game were real life.

Doesn't it then seem cheesy to take advantage of the space bar to pause? I can't pause a fight in real life and organize my attack.

I'm honestly currios here, I'm not trying to attack anyone or cut them down. Am I missing something about some of these techniques that make them cheesy?

Or is cheese just a purely subjective thing in which case labling a tactic as "cheese" is probably not particularly constructive.

 

True. I don't see how using Mordekains swords is any different then using summoned creatures anyplace else. I don't think it's cheesy. I just don't do it that way.

 

Sandor - back in my Street Fighter 2 days "cheesy" refered to any tactic that constitued a bonafide easy win so I'd imagine the same applies for BG. Although with regard to this particular scenario how the hell else do you fight Mindflayers?? Stand there and let them eat your brains? So the tactics that you propounded are not cheesy or "cheap" which is the other coined gaiming term for repeated cheesiness. A truly cheap tactic is something like Fake-talk or killing a Dragon using six cloudkills and lower-resistence. Other things like Beserking a hasted Korgan and rushing the demi-lich or summoning the swords to face the Illithid are a matter of neccessity. If anyone disagrees YOU tell me how else to beat a demi-lich, cast Protection from *specialist school* anyone?

 

The reason I'm labelling it as cheese is because it sounds like you want to send them into the fog of war. Your character has no way of knowing what is in the fog. I'm not here to tell you how to enjoy your game though, and you're more than welcome to play in the way that gives you the most pleasure.

I already told you how I beat them. I never have much of a problem with their int drain or other abilities. I even play with Weimer's Improved Mind Flayers.

 

Well I would know what's in the fog by sending a stealthed theif up ahead to scout. He tells me that there is a group of Bad Guys up ahead and tells me where to aim my area-affect spell. The only thing not realistic about this is the fact that monsters eye sight is probably no so bad that they couldn't see me standing 60 feet away - but then I can't see them either, so it's kinda fair.

I always fire my area affect spells right to the edge of the fog of war simply because I never know the range of them and just assume that it's the same as my eyesight - I hate it when a mage goes to launch a fireball and accidentally steps into eyesight of all the bad guys.

 

Sandor, you just stated the reason I hate the Skull Trap spell. It's an area effect spell, so it'll damage your own guys if they are in the area of effect, but it's range is short enough so that your mage has to get within eyesight of the enemies, so either you let them pound your mage, or you pound your own fighters as well as the enemies when you use the spell. The only use I can see for the spell is creating an actual trap, but I don't like the idea of setting a bunch of them up and dragging a creature back to them.

 

You can use protection from magical energy to protect your fighters.

Luring someone into a skull trap has got to be hard. Unlike thief traps you can't walk over them yourself so they'll probably blow up in your face or miss the enemy

 

They are not that hard, here's my strategy:

_ Cast Chaotic Command on your best fighter
_ Improve haste on him
_ Slaughter everything on sight!!

My character is a F/M/T with AC -9, destroy the whole Illithid lair with 4 Improve haste and 1 Chaotic Command, without much effort