Mods, mods, mods......

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-Maybe I should have made what I thought more clear but now I have so that's over with . Do you have any opinions on The Big Picture? It includes The Darkest Days, Tortured Souls and Shadows of Sousan(Or something like that) as well as several other small mods. I am a bit worried about compatibility with BG2 Tweaks and Quest Packs or redundancy as these mods might already be incorporated into TBP and the information over a Spellhold Studios is scant to say the least. I'll see if I can find the readme.....

 

The Big Picture seems to draw strong opinions one way or the other. It has fanatical fans that love the quests and seem willing to spend three days to bump up their 4,000 hour BG2 game into a 4,001 hour game. OTOH, you have folks like me that don't like the 23 step install process (including your own tp2 hacks) and find the new content less than compelling.

That's not to toss the whole mess under the bus--stuff like TDD remains awful, but BP itself seems to have reinvented itself as a decent tactical mod, BGT is serviceable, and (though I haven't tried it) SoBH looks interesting, mainly because it's one of the old P&P modules I actually played.

As for BG2 Tweaks, it's compatible with the various flavors of these mods with only a few minor exceptions--Multiple Strongholds will conflict with TS' version of it, for example.

 

@ SimDing0:

It isn't horrendously bad- at first I did quite like it. It is good to see enemies change opponents or head for a different character to the one I expected.

Unfortunately, it just seemed too random. I could imagine the Vampires running around my group, dodging through shadows and trying to pick on the most vulnerable members, that seemed cinematic (although a pain due ot my lack of much NPP).

However, the trolls I encountered also did this. They would run past fighters that were taking chunks out of them in order to attack a slim, unthreatening mage that was throwing rocks at them. Worse, they sometimes did this when said fighters were blocking the doorway, thus leading to several seconds of them doing nothing as they attempted to attack a party member they could not reach.

I eventually un-installed it for two reasons:

1) It was getting a pain to simply have my mages run around in circles when targetted to ensure the minimum damage was taken- I'd have to continually do this until the enemy was taken down by a chasing fighter, or the opponent suddenly targetted someone else.

2) It was a bit too unrealistic at times. Trolls are not reknowned for their intelligence- they may not even realise a character is a mage. I imagine them as having more of a 'survival of the fittest' mentality and turning your back on the biggest danger to you in favour of going after some guy who was playing no real part in the fight (often not even casting) just doesn't sit right in my mind.

 

Yes, you're quite correct. For the next release I will:

- Re-examine the targetting of various creatures to ensure that all enemy types choose their victims sensibly.
- Increase the priority assigned to fighting back when receiving damage. There's only so much I can do about getting stuck in doors given engine constraints (anything more complex than "attack the nearest guy" opens creatures up to this problem, unfortunately), but it should alleviate much of the trouble.
- WeiDU interface allowing, split the AI changes into individual components. (Yes, I know about GROUP, but the number of resulting components would be large, and I'm wary of having people drowned out in AI crap before they even reach the actual quests.)

Thanks for the comments!

 

Sorry for ressurecting the thread but I just noticed this now. Pardon me if I have to go a little off-topic here!

None taken. I was accused of worse things before!

Well, to tell you the truth, in real life I do not find myself too much gay most of the time. (but really, what difference it would make here, I remember seeing a real gay BoM member last year ) BUT, when playing BG2, I really really want to try and see different romances, which are hard and dedicated work of mod makers. But playing a female PC for only trying one particular romance is not my cup of tea. So I was rather happy when Kelsey decided to romance my PC (even though he thought my PC was a woman) as it added a lot of depth and new colour to my game! And I had fun discovering the romance, scripting, voicing, and the occasional romance-associated quests.

I was not disturbed or disgusted, this is only a game afterall! Don't tell me you didn't try that sort of things in other games (wink wink) I tried to create happy gay and lesbian couples in Sims yeras ago, when I was really bored. (it did not, uh, quite work out as I had initialy hoped though, this is another :sad: story!)

I tried Chloe too, and her dialogues and flirts with Imoen were exceptionaly well written, and so much 'in character' too! I bursted into laughter when Immy declared to Chloe that she was 'probably' pregnant from her! That was priceless! Ahh, good memories!

Now I have wonderful Improved Anvil mod, and I am taking Nathaniel in my current game, (he is another gay kensai) and his troubles, conflicts and romance is deep, well written and fun. Especially when he fights with Jaheria for the attention of my PC! I am so familiar with Jaheira that I can imagine the expression on her face even! To me this really enhances game play and I do not see any harm playing a 'quite gay NPC' mod...If you do, if you are disgusted by such ideas in BG2, then you don't have to play such mods under any circumstances, IMHO.

Thanks for reading!

 

Sikret, why aren't the tactics and item components separate in IA?

To me the tactics component looked very interesting but all that +6 stuff for 100 000 gp looked kind of bland. I really bought the item upgrade concept were you simply combine items that doesn't merit a slot by themselves and would like too try it out.

[ November 01, 2006, 23:23: Message edited by: Arawn ]

 

Oh this has been mentioned before. Try a search, PM or a visit to Blackwyrmlairs forum.

 

Now that I am trying Sikret's mod, I have became a dedicated and hardcore fan of Improved Anvil! That's first quality stuff, man!

This has been discussed before, Sikret's mod designed so brilliantly that tactics and item upgrade components are all melted in together. If you seperate one from the other, there will be a drastic drop of quality. From what I understand, you need tactic enemies to construct those items, as they drop the needed materials. Then, some tactical encounters happen only if you have spesific items or item upgrades done. You see, you can not seperate them, it is rather the theme of the mod, if you do seperate them it would be a different (and worse, I must say) mod.

If you do not want to create powerful stuff, just don't upgrade them. The mod does not force you to forge the items. But you will miss the fun, as upgrading items look like to be hard challenges indeed!

Check the Official FAQ for Improved Anvil , the creator of IA, Sikret explains it better!

 

Whether this is a result of "brilliant" design is something I would turn over a little more. Yes, there are items on the new enemies blah blah blah, but I'm not entirely convinced that melding "really tough battles" and "really powerful items" is the innovation you make it out to be.

It's hugely detrimental to immersion to try and explain away why your character comes across a powerful weapon but inexplicably decides that using it just isn't fair.

 

LMAO

 

Well, 3500 other players seem to be convinced.

Arawn: unfortunately, separating IA to multiple components would require severe changes on the mod's structure, and would result in serious quality loss.

 

Oh if this is how Sikret wants to present his mod that is his choice and I respect that. But I do appreciate those mods that are broken down in components so that you can customize you game as you want. And joining really powerful weapons with tougher challenges seems rather arbitrarily to me.

The trouble was that I wanted to try out the Item upgrade stuff which forces me too chose mods. And in my opinion the game already has more then enough to powerful stuff as it is, that’s one of the reason I’m looking for greater tactical challenges.
Also not using good items feels weird. You tinker and upgrade and switch equipment to maximise the groups efficiency and successively get better and better stuff. That’s basically what the game is about. Items that simply take all joy out of encounters like cloak of mirroring still irritates my power gaming soul by it’s very existence. Even though I don’t use them.

[ November 02, 2006, 07:37: Message edited by: Arawn ]

 

I don't really understand what you're trying to tell me here, to be honest. 3500 people downloaded the mod? Cool, it's nice that you're getting that many hits. I remain unconvinced that powering the entire game up so is anything to write home about, sorry.

 

And I don't understand why you are questioning that it's a brilliant work. In at least one respect, it definitely is. There are players who don't like so immensely powerful items, while others love them, especially if it's hard enough to get them. For their needs, it's definitely an innovation. Not every player wants the "usual" balance (i.e. with or without tough battles, no super-items), many others love the might and destruction power they gain. What do you think, why do certain players make their characters/weapons stronger and more destructive with ShadowKeeper? They just want to enjoy the game.

 

I think a misundertsanding has happened here for some players and commentators. The important point to note is that Improved Anvil is not primarily an "Item Upgrade" mod. It's a game enhacing mod which increases the game's content (i.e. new quests + + new encounters + new monsters + new tactical challenges).

Improved Anvil has actually nerfed several powerful items of the game. For example, Cloak of mirroring is replaced with a less powerful cloak and the cheesy scrolls of protection from undead have been replaced with a weaker sort of scrolls. Robe of Vecna, Celestial fury, Soul Reaver and some other items will also be weakened in the next release of the mod. It looks very strange to me that some people think that the mod makes the game "easier". They have not tried the mod in practice for sure.

All of the mod's new and seemingly powerful items are "themed" if you see what I mean. They are very difficult to forge and they are quest-related. Tests have shown that they do not unbalance the game. (but I'm still open to suggestions and comments if anyone thinks that any of the new items needs to be nerfed; but I expect such comments ONLY from people who have tried the mod in practice and not merely speculating in theory.)

As for why the mod's components are not separated from each other, please check this post.

PS: Yes, Improved Anvil has been downloaded by 3515 players so far, which is a great record for such a short period of time. Perhaps one reason is that I have always been open to suggestions and ready to add any new feature players request. (Dividing the mod's components into separate installation options is perhaps the only possible request which I'm not going to accept, because it will decrease the mod's overall quality.)

 

I don't see how. Tactics and Item Upgrade have been offering this for years. As of the current release, Improved Anvil provides what I consider to be a lower quality of writing and less complex AI. (Even accounting for Weimer's unfortunate penchant for breaking the fourth wall in his dialogue.)

I think it's partly a matter of hype, though. There's a noticeable following for the notion that IA has revolutionised BG2. A brief visit to the forum reveals posters clamouring specifically for the touch of Sikret to be applied to certain parts of the game. While it's nice that they're showing support for a mod then enjoy, I can't help but raise my eyebrow and wonder if I'm looking at the same download.

I don't deny that there are clearly a non-trivil number of players who enjoy IA, and that's great. I'm certainly curious to know why, however, and I think it's slightly inaccurate to suggest that Sikret's work is so tightly tied together and cleverly implemented that to separate the components would degrade the quality of the mod. No other modders that I know of have similar issues, and in my mind this skews the design more towards "unfortunate" than "brilliant".

 

Come now SimDing0, you are not fair. BTW a less complex AI isn't necesarely bad?

You make the IA forum sound very lively. If you are refering to my "Hands of Sikret" then I think you've lost your sense of humour. The SCS mod by David W has also done great things to my playing experience. To me IA has done more to BG2 than other comparable mods ie Tactics and Questpack, but perhaps it's just a matter of different opinions.

So what? If Sikret decided it was to disturbing to IA, well...

 

This is not true. I have compared Improved Anvil's scripts with almost all other mods which offer their own AI and custom scripts; and I can say with confidence that Improved Anvil offers what I can call the highest quality custom scripts and AI improvements.

And of course it will become better with every new release. I don't claim that it currently has the highest *possible* quality, but I say that it has the highest quality when compared with other similar mods.

[ November 02, 2006, 06:58: Message edited by: Sikret ]

 

Indeed. I should say, IA yields so much to BG2. Tactics becomes pale in comparison. I had - so far - some great playing experiences from this mod.

Another nice bonus is the pace Sikret works with. Creating polls and discussions, listening to fanrequests and reacting with newer versions quicker than - and I guess - anyone else (well maybe not quicker than the BG2Fixpackers).

 

Especially when someone like Silverstar (a difficulty masochist if ever there was one ) gives it a thumbs up.

Oh, now there's a HUGE surprise. Every mod forum I go to has people who are downright addicted to individual modders' work. Why? Because there are thousands, maybe even millions of players out there, and some fraction of those are going to click completely with a modder's mindset. They outright beg them to expand their mods and make more. The only way that doesn't happen is when people collaborate on a mod, and even then the site gets the hype.

In the end, the same way some people hate the Saerileth mod for something as little as a romancable NPC's age, and some people love it despite that, some people will hate IA's necessary cohesiveness, and some people will love it despite that small flaw.