moment of silence

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[ September 19, 2002, 10:43: Message edited by: vonGriffin ]

 

He said "back" not "black". Most people don't mind black hair, but back hair is another story.

I think scarampella said it... Human nature is not a pretty thing. We'll always fight. There will always be terrorism and war. We rule the world because we killed everything that stood in our way. I'm not referring to a nation, I'm referring to our race. Even today, when we know full well how much destruction we bring, we continue to bring it about.

I don't know who is "right" and who is "wrong" in the America / whoever vs Iraq conflict. Every time someone puts forward a point for one side, there's a point from the other. Our media is bound to report that which favours our allies. How can anyone really know? Is there truly any such thing as right or wrong? Or just how it affects our goals? Doesn't it stand to reason that people with different goals will have different values?

One thing that really gets to me is the definition of war / violence. I think of violence as "inflicting physical abuse upon someone". How is starving someone through sanctions not violence? The economic disruption involved with the times around wars seem to kill far more people than the actual fighting does. Sanctions are never viewed as seriouly as bombings, but they kill more people. US sanctions have been mentioned here, but I'm not picking on them in particular... sactions operate on both sides, I'm sure. However, I will say this: my country was very happy we could still sell grain to Iraq. Do you think we cared more about the Iraqies we'd be feeding, or the extra coins in our pockets?

We're ok with the fact that some half-starved child in a far-away land makes our shoes, because it means we only have to work for 2 hours to pay for them. We all say we're not, but we all keep buying those shoes.

In my opinion, life in general is treated too cheaply.

 

What is this, a bloody mass flame. Get over it. I refuse to offer any oppinio in this case as this is just flaming and no real debate at all.

 

Don't diss vonGriffin, it is only from his mailbox and if i posted all the sh*t I get in my mailbox then i'd take up all the whatnots space.

 

That isn't true. The whole thread isn't one big flame - there are non-personal bits in there (if you look hard enough). Read the whole post.

I think it is important for various opinions to be voiced. You've got to keep an open mind. This doesn't mean you can't have an opinion, you've just got to keep considering all the facts as they come.

There are quite a number of personal attacks in this thread, though. I'm surprised more warnings haven't been issued.

I'm also surprised people get so worked up about their countries. My beliefs aren't always accurately represented by the actions of my country as a whole. As such, I don't take an attack on my country's stance as an attack against me.

I never understand how people think name-calling is a valuable contribution to a discussion, though. When you think about it, insults are just chains of pointless information (the more profane, the less meaning you'll find in them). Are people simply trying to shout so much they can't hear other people?

 

First of all, I copy&paste all the writtings...

My point was only to see your opinions,,and yes majority of this is trash

[ September 19, 2002, 11:07: Message edited by: vonGriffin ]

 

I did read all of it, it seems that everyone has gone all out insult, shadowhunter is the ignored voice of reason and vonGriffon is despartatly trying to defend himself against the flames.
This thread has turned into a flame war with a few good points that have been discussed elseware.

 

Aikanaro.
Why is Shadowhunter ignored? He just shared an opinion. Thats all. I take it you feel he's ignored since you only read his post just now? A problem with forums is that you can't see people nodding. But that doesn't mean they don't nod, aye?

Anyway VonGriffin desperately defendig against the flames? What gave you that idea. As far as I see he has only been called one name, which has even been removed. The rest started just as a discussion of principles and now in the end of USA. Agreed? Call it heat if you want. But flame? *bleh*

[ September 19, 2002, 14:46: Message edited by: Nobleman ]

 

This thread is surprisingly busy for a moment of silence

 

@Thanos:

Where did I say I was infuriated? Frustrated, yes. Infuriated, no. I have real issues (child, mortgage, pregnant wife) in my life and do not have the energy to get infuriated over the postings here.
I never accused von griffin of personal insults. I merely observed that the thread was littered with them.

About freedom of speech. Yes I am familiar with the concept. Where in my post did I attempt to suppress speech? I merely stated that I don't know why Whatnots has become full of USA bashing and insults.

Last, I explained my frustration. I would like to understand why people feel the way they do. I would like to have discussions where people are not throwing around figures that they cannot provide sources or proof of.

In other words, I would like to discuss these topics, but let's base the discussion in reality. Let's try to have a dialog where we can exchange facts, opinions and ideas without making personal slams.

That is what I would like. To reword what I stated in my original post, I am not getting (nor am I going to get) what I want. Most of the people posting are not interested in facts, dialog, or an intelligent exchange of ideas.

If I was not clear (it appears crystal clear to me rereading my original post), then I apologize.

[ September 19, 2002, 16:09: Message edited by: Jack Funk ]

 

You see!??? Already this thread has upset alot of people!

 

Oh BACK hair? Hehe don't I feel silly now Just shows you how carefully I read stuff

Anyway, although I don't think the grilling you're currently giving him is absolutley necessary I wonder what possessed vonGriffin to post this? Although there is one interesting point:

I don't think that the US sanctions are the main reason for this. In fact I recognise this - it is actually what Slobodan Milosevic blamed all of Yugoslavia's troubles on (unjust and unprovoked sanctions - as his 'family' liked to call it). Now the same excuse is used to indoctrinate young Iraqis and make them into hateful revenge-prone fanatics (it sure worked on a large number of people here). Clearly the situation needs to be resolved - but not quite sure that bombing the hell out of Iraq is the answer.

 

Loyal boardmembers, you misunderstood me.

Shadowhunter declared that we were all fit to have our own opinions. While I agree, having my own opinion does NOT constitute posting bullplop on SP. All I was doing was showing why felt it was wrong that a random, foolish chain letter was posted. Just as it was wrong for me to flame him over a minor detail.

But this is just my OPINION...

[Check your PM.] -Tal

[ September 20, 2002, 09:54: Message edited by: Taluntain ]