More than 300 proofs of the existance of god!

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How can it be irrational to not believe that a being no one has seen created everything by itself, laid down a bunch of arbitrary rules (only ten of which officially is said to come straight from god) for one desert people. A being who performs all manners of miracles when it feels like it, quite a lot of them consists of killing and devastating people who do not worship this god. The madness goes on and on with virgin births and resurrections and all manner of silliness. And this is just one among thousand religions. How can it be irrational to reject them all?

Even if one happened to be true ,which is as likely as I learning to fly by flapping my nostrils, how do you pick? I mean, the odds are stacked heavily against you that you will make the wrong choice.

 

In this case the burden of proof is based on those who think God exists. To justify something based on something else without that something else actually being proven to someone else to exist is absurd.

I'm pretty much agnostic because of what joacqin said in the second above paragraph. So many choices, too much risk.

And just to throw out another curveball... How can God be a just god? In the old testament He ordered the genocide of certain peoples because they did not believe in Him. Did God send prophets to those people before? Did He give them a chance to convert to Him? Did he give them any proof? Any message? Now that's just how unjust God is in this life. What about the afterlife? If I lived in a small Chinese village about 500BC and had never heard of God how could it be just for me to burn in Hell for eternity for not believing in God?

 

Nope, an atheist says: 'I believe only in myself on things that can be tangible/explainable' And that can be easily proven

If god is almighty, why doesn't he get rid of satan? there can be only 1 almighty being, that is, by definition almighty

Love is not irrational... It's simply a mental adaptation to a physical need...


Besides, the evolution of men:

In the beginning man believed in many gods, when they became more evolved they only believed in one god anymore... and now, the most evolved people believe in no god anymore

 

TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT
(1) If reason exists then Balle exists.
(2) Reason exists.
(3) Therefore, Balle exists.

 

joacquin -- I can't see you. Therefore, I conclude that you do not exist. Since I do not believe you exist, you should stop existing.

Did you stop existing? No, I don't think so.

Does not believing in something makes it any less real? I could say: "I do not believe this wall is there," go right up to it and get a bump on my head. And even then I could say I still don't believe that wall is there. Does that make it any less real? Does that stop it from existing? No.

God doesn't need anyone to believe in Him. This will not change anything.

@LordSven

God is almighty. Satan is not almighty, and is already beaten, and knows that. However, he can act in time, and will try and seduce people.
Since God is Love, he will not 'get rid' of Satan. God gave him free will, and has allowed him to choose for himself. Because of that love, Satan will continue to exist -- God will not contradict Himself in any way.

 

If you do not believe that I exist it is up to me to prove that I do exist, but seeing that you read what I supposedly write and you could see my picture the SP gallery. It is not overly strong evidence but it is a lot stronger than anything you have for any kind of divine being.

As for the wall the fact that you got a bump should tell you that there is something there, the empirical evidence suggest that it exists, you can chose to disregard that but it is of no consequence.

When it comes to god there is no such evidence, it is as rational to believe in Allah or the Christian god as it is to believe in tree spirits, santa claus or the little green stone eater. Just because some people claim something exists doesnt make it to exists, just as when you pointed out that claiming something to not exist doesnt make it stop being.

You cannot argue in favour of religion from a rational or logical stand point, you always have to make at first one un-falsifiable assumption and then build on that one and this removes any foundation in rationaly or logic for the entire argument. Argue out of faith or gutfeeling or whatever but do not take a false rational or logical stance. Your fellow Polish Roman-Catholic chevalier said just this in his first post in this thread.

If God is almighty but allows his creation free will and that is why Satan is still around, why did God then punish Satan, wasnt that to remove his free will? Is it not to remove mans free will if God allows Satan to influence and fiddle with our minds?

 

He did had a free will, but just as the Humans, he got punished for doing wrong, and his choise became his fall.

That depends. Some churches believe that Satan controls our minds and makes us evil, some believe that he just has an influence, some even believe that he does NOT have any influence, but is just the deliverer of pain when you get what you deserve when you die.

 

So, if a bunch of churches within the same general faith has a ton of different opinions on something as important as free will and the evil one how do you know which one is correct? The most basic tenet of every religion is that it is *true*, how do you pick between all these different interpretation even within each religion? Only one can be *true*, how do you know the one you have is the right one?

 

One never knows which one is true, one THINK he knows which one is true. There is a reason I don't consider myself a member of any curch, there's a reason I don't even consider myself a member of the normal Christian curch, and that reason is that being in a small folder limits your own way of thinking.

 

@toughluck:

Blatantly self- contradictory.

Um, yeahhhh. That's right. The asian tsunami was our fault.

Is it not a little sadistic for a almighty God to let people do evil things and then punish them for it? To elaborate on that, I'd like to point out that the way our brains are wired (in your opinion, that is because God made them that way) mean that we often want to do things classed as sins! If a omnipotent-benovelent God existed, He would not make us want to sin. It's as silly as the concept that God lets suffering take place to make us learn from the experience, when He could have made that unnessecary.

 

I don't really think anyone here would be qualified to say what God (or any other gods) would do or not do. If you believe in God you will read that due to our nature and existance there are many concepts that we can never understand or even accept.

 

So, God does exactly nothing on this side of the world. All he does is sort out the bad from the good AFTER they're dead. Why's he almighty then, we dont feel any of his might, if we did, he'd be influencing our free will.


The most important reason i think God doesnt exist, though, is the Old testament. As mentioned before, a lot of his miracles involved killing entire nations that did not belive in them. Mercilesly wipe them off the earth. Their women were given to the soldiers.
This is in total opposition to what good, as we define it, is.
It is from a source of christianity though, nothing that could be said to be the work of satan or a lunatic.

All in all, i belive Christianity isnt even good for people. While a grand majority of what it teaches is fine and well, people just arent made for being all goody. If anything, they have to come to the conclusion they like to be nice to other people by themselves.

 

My belief is that Jesus was sent not only to forgive our sins but to save us from The Father. As Gothmog says:

"The most important reason i think God doesnt exist, though, is the Old testament. As mentioned before, a lot of his miracles involved killing entire nations that did not belive in them. Mercilesly wipe them off the earth. Their women were given to the soldiers.
This is in total opposition to what good, as we define it, is."

 

if god is almighty, he can create a rock that god can't move. If god can't move it he is not almighty.

 

If God exists, he is logical. If he is logical he cannot make something that does not exist.

 

I know God exists because of mathematics.

0 X 0 = 0. 0 + 0 = 0. If nothing existed there would be no universe. Something had to exist for the universe to come into being.

Some philospher said that it is the nature of the Creator to create.

 

Do you think the laws of the universe are appliable before the creation of the universe?

 

No, I do not. Only X existed. Most people call X God. The unknown force behind what now is. There had to be something to create what we now have. If this sounds confusing it is. We are finite beings and can believe in the infinite but not comprehend it. This is where religion comes into play. This is also where I become agnostic.

 

One thing -- Big Bang. If it needed matter to happen, where did the matter come from. If it is possible for the matter to form out of nothing, to become equal amounts of matter and anti matter, it should happen all the time -- infinite times over infinitesimal amounts of time. Heck, I should have infinite Big Bangs right next to me in the room I'm sitting in.
Otherwise, what made that moment of time, 20 billion years ago, so unique that the only Big Bang known to man happened then?

 

And er... what/who created God? Where did he come from?

Basically the same argument can be applied to both they just "existed". Your 20 Billion year time scale is only relevant because now 20 Billion years have passed since an event. Alternatively it might have happened 10 Billion years ago which would mean we wouldn't be here.
At some point things got to the point of creating a "big bang", if they hadn't happened then, in an infinite time scale they would have happened later, maybe yesterday. Presumably you only get a single big bang because after that there isn't enough matter compressed into a single location!

There is/was one theory that at some point the universe will start contracting again and all mass will go back into a single point and await the next "big bang". I'm not sure if this was disproved by some observations which showed the galaxy's seem to be accelerating away from each other.