New Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword expansion

Remove all ads!

I like to send spies over to essentially go camping in enemy cities until I'm ready to attack. They give you visibility on what's going on in that city (and your espionage alone may not reveal this) and they'll never be detected unless they try an espionage move. One tactic I've tried, with varying degrees of success, is triggering revolts on cities I'm attacking, making them a little easier to take. But in general, I just use them for recon.

I agree though - they aren't nearly as useful as they could be.

By the way - I've tried a few games now where early Dog Soldier rushing is my preferred tactic. It's as brutal as you'd think, and even with 4 strength instead of 5, I was getting 99% probability everytime going up against fortified Warriors in my enemy cities. I still prefer the early Quechua rush, however - as you can build more without potentially revealing Bronze to your enemies.

 

Yeah, most of the espionage effects are pretty minimal. In my current game I have only used espionage for stealing a couple early technologies that I never bothered researching and forcing my neighbours to switch over to the same state religion as me. I have just started a couple corporations and one of my neighbours is using the civic that blocks corporations from moving in so I may eventually end up sending a spy to switch that out so that I can set up corporate offices in his cities.

Sid's Sushi and privateers are a nice one two punch - set up the corp in their cities and run privateers in to pillage their fishing boats thus killing the positive benefits.

 

I have played one game as the Native Americans, and I agree that Dog Soldiers are positively unfair in the early game. For two measly techs you can get a strength 4 unit that does double damage in melee. Anyone who doesn't have archers yet is completely toast. I took out the Korean civ - which had two cities when I began my attack with ONE Dog Warrior. Unfortunately, given the strength of 4, they are early rush only. After that they only serve as support units, although they still provide pretty good city defense (for counter attacking purposes).

I never thought of that - but that's really funny - and there's no way you'll get drawn into a war. They still pay for the corp, while deriving benefits only from whatever rice they may have.

 

Poisoning the water supply can shrink the city a couple levels, reducing the productivity. Formenting unhappiness will shut down production for several turns. Occasionally I may even steal a tech from someone...

I finally built a Corporation. Mining Inc. was founded in my capital. I am missing a supply of Sivler (could only find one silver on the whole freaking map, and I have to go through the Sumerians under Hammurabi then the Spaniards under Cyrus) to take it. I found that the Khmer, Aztecs, Arabians, Americans and Native Americans were more than happy to spread it to all their cities, where as I have thus far only spread it to three cities. Perhaps I could use a bunch of spies to take out the mined resources. I've only spread it to a couple cities with a GG settled. I may expand this to any city that has a courthouse and doesn't need culture. I'm also waiting on a second GE to build Creative Constructions in an area that direly needs culture (like the Jewish Holy City, the city I took with several wonders, a couple cities on the border with the Sumerian capital).

I played Tokugawa of the Ottoman empire this time. The free Combat I on Axes and Maces gives you the offensive punch quickly, and the free promotions on th Janisaries is where the real power comes in. After the mission to build 8 Jannisaries (after I had dozens on the board) gave them Pinch free. So that's four promotions then I get to add 2 more (7 or 9 exp). I'm loving the new Cuirassers. When I got them, they were only stalled by Pikemen.

The only problem I've run into is the excessive wars (not all of my choosing) have put me behind in the tech race, and key techs are not available for trade as the AI doesn't want to give up techs to get anything I have. I did get Rifling and Military Science, but several turns behind the AI. I am ahead on score, and by far the largest civ. Now to translate this to a win is the question...

 

It's such a rich and complex game, I have to say that reading about different tactics in this thread is really thought provoking.

I won't get the expansion before I get a better hold of the game though, there are just too many options for me already.

 

That shouldn't be too hard. Usually, the civ with the largest commerce pool wins. Being behind technologicially should be easy enough to correct at this point. Lots of courthouses, switch to a commerce/science enhancing civics (free speech and religon, democracy, emancipation and free market should do it) and you should be out teching the AI in no time.

What kind of missions have you guys got? I have had quite a few, but unfortunately, I haven't completed many of them. In fact, the only time I go for one is if it is in my plans anyway. So far, I've successfully completed build enough forges, and greed (in which they told me to take control of horse resources). Oh, and I got a crusade too, but never finished that quest or game. What are some of the rewards you get? In the greed quest I got three of the best mounted units available (knights at the time I completed it). For the forge quest I had several options, although the one I decided on was to have a great engineer join the city - I had no Great People points going to engineers - so I went with that.

One other notification I frequently get that I think is strange - The people of (fill in the name of recently conquered city) are rightfully asking to join the (fill in the name of civ from which they were conquered) empire. Do you:

Yes, Do so immediately
No, I'm the one in charge
Let me check the city first

What happens if you click on anything besides no? Does it gift the city to the enemy? Does it bring up a trade window?

 

I believe it just gifts the city to the other civ (it's not always an enemy - in my case, it's happened several times with a city near my voluntary vassal state), resulting in the flip of the city (though you don't get a choice whether to disband it or not as in a culture flip) and a decent relations boost with that civ. I've only given a city over once (it was an outlying city I took from barbarians with no key resources, so I didn't think it would hurt to lose it) and I got a +3 relations boost for it. Funny thing is, about 10 turns later it culture-flipped back to me anyway, at which point I disbanded it.

 

Playing around as Tokugawa, but as the English this time around. I want to delay the height of my power for when my economy will sustain the major offensives I will need to pull off. Cavalry and Redcoats, adding Cannons eventually should enable me to take down anyone that perturbs me. Currently I've knocked off 4 rivals (Wang Kon of the Dutch, Kublai Khan of the Native Americans, Brennus of Mali, and Korea with a leader I don't remember at present) The AI has culled at least one more), and I have at least twice the land and pop of my largest competitor. I'm researching Military Tradition to enable Cuirassers, have a deathstack ready if the French (under Washington) act up. Will need to get an Open Borders with the Mongols (Someone not so aggressive) if the Americans (Bismarck) cause trouble, and a long walk is Ragnar of India gets his nuts in a knot.

Missions? I've completed the 6 Chariots (chose Combat I on all chariots every time), 8 Muskets (Free Pinch), 5 Colloseums (The ability to have your colloseums generate Culture), 5 Castles (Free Drill I on melee units). Never pulled off the 5 libraries one or seen the forges one. Someone beat me to the caravels one.

Also I did complete a mission for my corproation in one game, and my Corp HQ generated an extra 10 gpt.

As for cities wanting to join another civ, it's not always a vassal or even the civ they came from. My response is almost always *expletive not included* you. I've even gone to war to retake a city that revolts and defects on its own. The only problem is that when teh time comes I seldom have the firepower to affect a more permanent solution.

Tomorrow I should have a success story for you...

 

Last night I decided to try editing the unit file to turn the Persian Immortals into slightly beefed up swordsmen because it just seemed silly for them to be riding horses. I started a new game playing as the Persians and quickly found that not only did I forget to lower the unit's move setting but somehow I messed up the unit strength setting and inadvertently made it so that they almost live up to their name. I must have double hit the key because instead of changing it from 4 to 7 I changed it to 77!

I guess I will have to try again because playing with a bunch of iron age yobos who can cut through modern armour like a hot knife through butter kind of makes the game a little on the pointless side.

 

I took my win this morning.

I have been playing on the Maze map, where you get a maze formed out of the land mass, three tiles wide. Makes for some choke points and some really quick offensives if that's what you want.

I played as Tokugawa of the English. It was this morning that I learned that the Redcoat has been nerfed, and instead of a 16, it's now a 14. But still with Combat I, CG I and Drill I automatic and 2 free promotions, it's still a monster. The combination of Cannons, Cavalry and Redcoats was enough to cut through the last civilization. Even though I didn't wipe them out, I did get enough land to put me over the top for the domination.

I'm finding I don't get far enough with Science to really use the Corproations. I'm now looking at being stingier with the espionage (I forget to build spies when I'm in the heat of battle), and trying to get the techs I need for corporations earlier.

I think for a little while I'll either try out the scenarios or maybe letting the computer pick my Leader and Civ...

 

I fixed my custom Immortals last night. It is just too bad that I can't give them a unique appearance that fits them. Well, I suppose I could create one from scratch but, between learning how to do so and then actually doing it, that would be far too much work.

Anyway, I started a new game as the Persians and it is going well. My custom Immortals are a bit underpowered for a unique unit but I suppose they will do.

 

I gotta say, Gnarff, every time I see you come in with a new combination, it just makes me shudder. Not at you personally, at all, but at the idea of mixing leaders around. It just feels so cheap and powergamy. I know it's not part of a mod and a legitimate option requested by fans and put in by the designers, but still - I can't even fathom it. It feels so wrong to me that if I were ever to win a battle with a mixed leader it would be tantamount to starting a BG2 game with a character with 18 in every stat. The leaders, traits, free techs, UU and UB's are all balanced out by the developers - which explains why Japan's dominant military advantage is balanced so well by such a crappy unique building and starting techs. Why mess with it? They went out of their way to make sure it ain't broke.

To me, the greatest aspect of the game is the feeling that you're rewriting history a little. That feeling only makes sense when it's in context. So therefore a Japanese leader ruling England is so outlandish a concept that it removes all sense of believability for me. Especially when you find out that you're up against Gilgamesh of America and Gandhi of France. It's just too silly.

Eh, maybe it's just me - but I hate hearing about it. I read a post starting off like that and it gives me the same feeling I used to get when people would start BG2 threads about "I just started of in Irenicus' dungeon with my level 18 Kensai/Thief, and it rocks!!" It's a powergaming invitation if I ever saw one. The game is challenging and interesting enough without this feature.

All that said, however - it's your game, play it how you want and enjoy. I'd just never be caught dead doing it myself.

@ All,

One major virtue I've found in building either Cereal Mills or (successfully in my case) Sid's Sushi is the free food. You no longer have to fear building a city over ice, so long as you connect it to your network and send along a Sid's Sushi rep to spread to the city upon it's founding. It'll get 8 or so free food per turn, despite the heavier maintenance costs. Building courthouses quickly will offset this a bit. Especially if building these new cities means access to previously-not-worth-it fish, clam or crab resources, all the better.

[ August 16, 2007, 16:41: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]

 

It's a double edged sword. I hears about one guy having Monty as a neighbour--commanding Rome. He threw in the towel when Monty showed up with Praets...

One observation is that you still need to adjust the strategy. If you go for an early edge, you're still going to run out of gas fast, and be playing the rest of the game with the height of your power behind you, and trying not to fade into irrelevence. It's still a challenge, but a vastly different challenge, so I'll have to disagree with you there.

I probably wouldn't use Tokugawa as the leader of Japan now that the Samurai has been nerfed (going from 2 first strikes, a huge edge, to Drill I, just a chance for one first strike). Tokugawa now is a one trick pony that's had his trick toned down.

Trying out the Crossroads of the world scenario. I've noticed that I fall behind in the tech race trying to keep up in gold, or fall behind in gold for a military edge. Will have to make another run tomorrow...

 

I had my first opportunity to play last night since mini-fop got here, and I got screwed. I started off by myself on a decent piece of real estate with enough room for 6 cities. However, I got no copper or iron. To make matters worse, there are no unoccupied land masses that can be accessed with a galley. I've found two unoccupied continents - one with iron and one with bronze, but caravels can't carry settlers. The ONLY land mass within reach of galleys is occupied by france, and I can hardly consider an invasion when my offensive capabilities are limited to archers and chariots.

I doubt I'll even try to continue, as I can't get to those continents prior to making galleons, which require astronomy. I don't know - one advantage is even though I can't get to those other islands yet, neither can anyone else...

 

Two questions:

First, do you have horses? With horses, you can use mounted units, With Ivory, War Elephants will work nicely for this. Between Longbows, Catapults and Horse Archers, you could make a possible landfall.

Second, How far off is Gunpowder. Once you have Muskets, metal is less important...

 

Well I finished my game as the Persians with a cultural victory. I managed to get my third city to legendary culture status only two or three turns before the game would have ended via the space race - the amusing twist being that I was in a race against my own rocket.

I sent my rocket off and then when I was looking at the victory conditions panel I realized that I was awfully close to a cultural victory so I focused all of my efforts on getting the cultural victory and narrowly managed to beat my own rocket. For the life of me I don't know how the culture got to be that high in two of the three cities but I wasn't about to complain.

 

I had horses, but no elephants. I doesn't matter as I started a new game anyway. This time as the Native Americans. The Dog Warriors only managed to take out one rival civ, before running into the Koreans, who developed archery. Dog Warriors aren't so great against any archer, but especially poor against archers from protective civs. My Dog Warriors with Combat 1 and City Raider 1 had just a 2.7% chance of success.

The other thing I like about the Native Americans is that they get excellent archers. They are protective, so they automatically start with City Garrison 1 and Drill 1, plus if you build a totem pole, it gives you a bonus of 3 experience points.

 

I really hate the space race. For me it always goes something like this:

"I'm doing so well, I'm doing so well, building an army, spreading my culture, producing, producing, this is great! Look how cool my civ is! I have so much land area, now. I'm awesome. You can't mess with ME, Napoleon! That war you started on my back in the renaissance? Remember that, bitch? Well I sure do! I just defeated your closest ally, I'm comin for ya! Ha ha...wait...what the...Ghandi! Dammit! Why'd you finish the space program already? Where are your priorities, man? Oh well, I'm gonna get that domination victory once I take out Na-...what? SS thrusters? Already? Awe, come on Ghandi! You're bustin' my balls! Com-....What? Cyrus? You too? How do you...Ghandi, stop it! Damn it! Oh, fine! Shut down the war machine, boys. Grrr, maybe I can get that god damn space elevator up first...."

And so ends my fun conquest in lieu of the stupid rat race.

Lame-a-paloooooza.

 

I got my first U.N. diplomatic victory with the Chinese in ... 2048!!! I didn't think I'd make it.

I've been playing too much with religion though. It's not as great as I thought. I tried to fund all religions with Saladin and I was ran over by Alexander and Mao.

One thing that I find really annoying is that sometimes a city you have just taken will flip over to a neighbour eventhough this civ was actually the enemy of the civ which had established the city. I'd get it if it flipped to a neutral civ but that just doesn't make sense to me. Even worse, once I captured a barbarian city and when I took over there were citizens complaining about wanting to join "the motherland"... That's not even funny.

Is it different with the expansion(s)?

 

I guess my question would have to be whether or not it was originally a barbarian settlement. If we allow realism to intrude on the game, you might think that you are liberating them from the barbarian hordes but the locals would probably just consider you another invader.